Clare Muscutt talks with Stine Ringvig Marsal about squiggly careers and fixing a broken CX industry.
Episode #404 Show Notes
Clare:
Welcome to the fourth episode of the fourth series of the Women in CX podcast, a series dedicated to real talk conversations between women in Customer Experience. Listen, in, as we share our career stories, we relive the moments that shaped us and voice our opinions as loudly as we like about all manner of CX subjects, I'll be your host, Clare Muscutt And in today's episode, I'll be talking to one of our community members, a seriously awesome entrepreneur in CX. Let me introduce you to today's inspiring guest she's based in Denmark and following studying sociology. She went on to spend 15 years developing and implementing CX improvements for B2B and B2C customers for three of the biggest Danish brands, Copenhagen zoo, Tivoli gardens, and Copenhagen airports, and has since founded multiple businesses, including the Scandinavian experience management community, and is presently CEO of Experience Management Consult. Please. Welcome to the show CX Sister, Stine Ringving Marsal.
Clare:
Hey, Stine.
Stine:
Hello.
Clare:
How are you? My dear.
Stine:
I am doing very good in good company. So I'm doing good.
Clare:
Oh, I love that. Well, welcome to the Women in CX podcast.
Stine:
Thank you. I'm very excited to be here.
Clare :
Oh, I'm so excited. You're here too. I, and welcome to everybody listening along as well.
Clare:
Stine, I'm super, super excited for our conversation today.
Clare:
You've been in our community for almost a year now. Um, and we've had so many exciting conversations. I can't wait to share this one with the world. So just to ease us in and get us warmed up. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into CX?
Stine:
Sure. I I'm initially a sociologist, so I studied sociology and, um, I've always been interested in behavior. Uh, when I was done with university, I kind of didn't know what I gonna do, you know, when I grew up. Um, and so I just coincidentally tripped into a role in the Copenhagen zoo as a sales manager. So I was working with, uh, business to business sponsorship sales and that sort of, um, I found it super interesting. The, because starting to understand one business' needs in terms of being able to tailor a sponsor package, I, I really liked it. And then, uh, we worked with a UX company on improving our website. And this is actually when I started understanding there was anything related to, you know, the X. That was interesting. So when I stopped working at the zoo, I actually joined this consultancy firm and spent quite a, a few months doing their research, like using my sociologist toolbox in terms of, you know, interviewing customers, developing personas and understanding like, you know, what does the world look like from different customer types' perspective.
Stine:
And our challenge as an agency was that sometimes, you know, we would make like a brilliant use of centred website. And then, um, they would also have a store or they would have a call centre. And so what about that? And so we, we teamed up with, um, the leading service designer in Denmark. Um, a guy called Sean Bickman and, and so this is my first initial meeting with service design and I was just, I was like, this, this is what I wanna do when I grow up. Um, and so when I stopped working at this agency, I contacted Sean and I said, listen, I would just love to be able to learn from you. Can I follow you around and be your sorry, haemorrhoid for a while? And
Clare:
What a choice of words.
Stine:
Yes. Sorry. Um, I can blame it on the, you know, English not being my mother tongue. Right.
Stine:
And so Sam said, yes. And I started, you know, doing workshops with him and seeing how he worked. I read his books. And then what happened was that I was contacted by Tivoli Gardens, which is the biggest tourist attraction here in, in Denmark. And I've always, you know, I think a lot of people always thought, you know, oh, what would it be like to work at Tivoli? You know? And so I couldn't say no, but this was back into the, um, the sponsorship, um, business to business role. And I just thought, you know, wouldn't it be great if they had a customer experience manager a position here. Uh, but they weren't quite there. And so I was like, okay, but I'm gonna join. And it was, you know, great experience. And then after a year they actually posted the position of customer experience management manager. And I was like, okay, this I have to do so I, you know, jumped at the throat and got the position and, and basically the rest is history.
Clare:
Wow. And do you like rollercoasters?
Stine:
Some, I, I like some, not all
Clare:
I love rollercoasters, that would like literally have been one of my dream areas to work in customer experience at theme parks. So I've seen and then, and then, like, what kind of, where did you go after, after the theme parks? Where did your customer experience career journey take you?
Stine:
Well, I was contacted by head-hunter that was trying to fill a position for Copenhagen airport, the service excellence director. And at the time that they contacted me, I was like, no, no, it's so great here. And then after a while, I was like, okay, I contacted them back. And I was like, okay. I would maybe like to, you know, put in my bid for that position. And so I did. And then, um, seven years later, uh, I, I worked at the Copenhagen airport for seven years as the service excellence director, which is, uh, you know, a, a very nice way to say customer experience manager, I guess, but responsible for driving the customer experience throughout, like across the different customer segments of the airport. So, obviously there's passengers, uh, but there's also airlines ground handlers, uh, and the concessionaries that have the shops in the shopping center and so forth.
Stine:
Uh, so it was really like the switch from amusement park to airport was quite, um, I think it sort of propelled me into CX in a deeper way, because I think when I was in Tivoli, you know, you read all those, you know, customer experience books and, and you, you know, follow the hashtags on LinkedIn and at the time, at least, and I think it's still somewhat that way. There's a lot of, you know, put your customer first and, you know, examples are Amazon and Disney and DPOs, and, and then you sit in an organization like the airport, which has a hundred year history, it's regulated. And I just couldn't, um, I just couldn't really, uh, connect it the way I thought I was supposed to. And when I say thought I was supposed to it's because you know of, you know, the, the way the experts are portraying it.
Stine:
So for a while, I felt quite challenged until, until I grabbed in my, you know, sociological toolbox. And I was like, okay, but I have to understand the needs of my, you know, of my colleagues like the managers and the leaders of the different departments, where I was trying to drive change or where we needed to drive change. And I have to understand the needs of the employees on the floor. Like how can I make their role fusion with the needs of the customer? So, so I feel, um, I spent a few years doing things that a lot of people felt were, ah, she's implementing so much and she's so efficient. But then when I looked across, like I look behind my shoulder a few years later, some of those things just sort of died out because I hadn't adapted it properly to the operation and to the kind of organization that that I was in.
Stine:
So I think being in the airport really taught me a lot about making things super functional. I've always been very focused on how to make this work on the floor, uh, which I think is, is, is, is missing from a lot of, you know, um, literature and statements on what you should do about your customer experience. But so I think in the airport that really sort of drilled the challenges I had at first at the airport really drilled into me, you know, think about how is this gonna work on the floor in a 24/7/365 operation going a hundred miles an hour and where you can't just pull 1500 security employees for an eight hour course, cuz it's way too costly. So the airport really taught me, how can you do CX and make it work without having an astronomical budget without needing to sort of halt your operations and pick the puzzle apart and put it back together. Um, so, so yeah, now I forgot totally what your question was, but That was the end of my sentence.
Clare:
No, I was just asking you a bit more about kind of like your career journey. So I, so I'd love to actually part that part around, you know, customer experience is not one size fits all. Yes. Compared to what we're told about these frameworks, especially in kind of these B2C ones and then like ending up in a situation where it doesn't quite apply. Um, we're gonna come back to that for sure. You know, in the next segment, but I still think like there's still a bit more isn't there. Like what, what, what have you done since Copenhagen airport? What are you doing now?
Stine:
Yeah, I have a life now. True. Yeah, since Copenhagen airport, um, I've founded a community which sort of coincided with yours. So I was in the process of designing a community because I had felt quite lonely in the role I was, I didn't have a team. So because my job was to drive the managers and make customer experience something that, you know, was an, a culture in the organization. So you could say my people, that was all the people. Um, so to have that sort of collegial, collegial shared, and what
Clare:
Collegiate, I think,
Stine:
Right. That chat with, with someone who is sort of from the frame, same frame of mind, uh, or mind frame set, whatever, you know what I mean? I, yeah. You know what I mean? I hope everyone else does too. Otherwise, you know,
Clare:
They do because they're probably CX professionals, who've experienced a similar sense of profound loneliness and you know, whether or not you have a team or not as a leader in customer experience without doubt. And again, part of the reason I wanted to, to start the Women in CX community was because we all deal with it. Cause it feels like sometimes we are talking a different language or so, you know, we're trying to put forward this way of thinking and a mindset and a culture and a philosophy that not everybody gets. And for those of us, like, you know, you and I who found ourselves catapulted from an industry like mine was hospitality. Yours was, uh, entertainment where customer experience is everything into a world where it really isn't. So for you, airports, for me, it was supermarket retailing. Um, I totally get you that sense of profound professional loneliness and needing a tribe and needing support. I wish we'd have had communities like the ones we had created back then. So yeah, you're doing the good work for sure.
Stine:
So when I start working at the airport, I was like, okay, I want to, I want to make a space where I can learn and grow and share my experiences and have other people share theirs. So my community is a Danish community for practitioners specifically, so, um, so, so I did that and didn't really know what if I was looking for a new job in, you know, I, I wasn't sure what industry I wanted to go to. Like I've been to the zoo I've been to Tivoli and the airport, you know, not a lot of organizations can top that I felt, so I was, I was a bit at a wilderness point, uh, or I was lost in the wilderness, not really sure what to do. And then suddenly I was contacted by different organizations saying, ah, we can see you're not working at the airport.
Stine:
Do you wanna help us do this? And, and so tasks just kept rolling in and the limit for when I should be in a job, kept being pushed. And then finally I was like, okay, well, if, if the jobs just keep rolling in like this, maybe I should just take like jump and say, okay, I'm doing my own little start-up CX consultancy here. So I have the community, which is part of what I do. And then I I'm a consultant, uh, helping other businesses, um, benefit from my years of experiences with being successful and failing in implementing CX. And, and then I am starting up, uh, an academy, like an online course academy for, you know, trying to make the CX philosophy and toolbox more widely available for, for any kind of business who would like to start their journey. But, you know, aren't quite ready to do that investment that it is to have a, a consultant running around on your premises. So that's what I do now, apart from, you know, having, you know, I also have a real life, you know, with my wife and kids and things like that.
Clare:
Well, I know, I dunno how you fit it all in. You're so busy,
Clare:
But congratulations on making the move. I know, again, kind of having been there, myself, leaving the security of a regularly paid job to become an entrepreneur and a founder of your own thing it's quite scary and daunting, but you are absolutely smashing it. So well done you for making that leap. Um, so yeah, so just kind of like venturing into that personal space then I, I guess is my next question. So, you know, on the road to all these incredible things that you've achieved, is there anything that particularly sticks out in your mind as a challenge that you had to overcome to become the woman that you are today?
Stine:
I think, um, now we're gonna go like sort of really personal for a moment. Um, but coming out, you know, I fell in love with a woman when I was 21 and had up until then I had had boyfriends and I had at the time hair like yours long mine was blonde. Uh, and having lived in a world where I really hadn't seen the world from a different perspective than mainstream. So when I came out and all of a sudden I was confronted with how people would perceive me differently, just because I had, you know, fall in love with someone who wasn't called Thomas was really weird. Uh, I was in the United States at the time, and then thinking, you know, I'm gonna come back to Denmark and we're a super tolerant country. We're the first country where gay people could get married. So this is like, it's gonna be smooth sailing.
Stine:
I thought, which for the most part, it, obviously I shouldn't, you know, it's not a complaint, you know, people, there are people all over the world that has it much worse, but, but what it did for me was show me how, you know, other people would look at me differently. So suddenly I had another, like a different life experience than I had had previously. Mm. And that I think is a, is a big strength in the work I do now because I have a, a big respect for, you know, a viewpoint or no, not a viewpoint. I have a big respect for the fact that reality looks different to everyone. And, and, and it, in many ways, it, it sparked a curiosity about, you know, what does the world look like from where you sit from the experience you have from, um, the things you've gone through from the things you dream about.
Stine:
And, and to say that this is an advantage in CX, what I mean is the outside-in perspective is extremely difficult to achieve. If you've never had to step out of whatever is the mainstream, you know, view or the mainstream feeling. I, I don't know how exactly to frame it well in English, but, but having to sort of sidestep there and be like, oh, I understand why people who've gone through this, their entire lives have a perception of other people, you know, you know, it just, it did something for my, my ability, I think, to, to look at things from different perspectives. Mm.
Clare:
And to empathize, I guess, as well, because like you said, just to play back your own words, it was like, you know, this experience that I didn't expect to have as women, we are very much gendered aren't we like women are supposed to go marry somebody called Tom and have 2.4 children. And even in our careers, are supposed to put the children first and, you know, like, be thinking about motherhood our whole lives. So when we deviate from that path, whether it's from a sexual orientation perspective, or even the decision to get married or have children, um, it does seem strange that the rest of the world then looks at us differently because of the choices we decide to make that have nothing to do with anyone else. So, yeah. And then I'm sure there are other women, um, who listen to the show who have either experienced the difficulty of coming out or are going through that themselves now.
Clare:
But it's awesome to see you out proud with your wife and two children. So I wanted to just kind of move back towards, um, some of the things you've been talking about today have been, you know, like what CX is a bit like a bit similar, actually, what we're supposed to do in CX, what the experts tell us what the existing frameworks are, um, what the, the pedagogues of culture within the customer experience industry are, and that kind of discovery of finding out, oh, actually all these things that I've been told to do, don't quite fit here now what? And yet still feeling that out there, there isn't that, that much difference or, uh, or different options in being able to learn about CX in a different way than naming no names, the traditional reasons. No. And, you know, having to then as women, um, who've experienced this and seen this and, you know, got our battle scars from failing, and then eventually winning, most of the time, having to create spaces ourselves and creating courses and, you know, whatever else to, to make room for the difference that there is out there in the CX world.
Clare:
I just wanted to dig a little bit more into your perspective around the CX industry. So what are your thoughts and, and why, why are you kind of coming to this point yourself?
Stine:
Well, my thoughts are that there is far too much, excuse my language, but fluffy bullsh*t.
Clare:
I was gonna say excuse my language, fluffy... but I knew there must be a swear word coming. So yeah, let's just fence that out. Sorry. There is a lot of bullsh*t.
Stine:
Yeah. There's a lot of that. And I think too few people that have actually had their hands dug deep down in the dirt and done stuff too few of those are speaking out about their methods and their experiences. And so, um, and I think for me, the reason why I built the community that I, that I've built, which is similar to yours only it's Danish and it's a non-gendered one. And, you know, but, but my, the reason was that I wanted those people with their hands in the dirt to talk together and learn and be much more visible because I can understand why people say, you know, customer experience, Yeah. But you know, it doesn't really end up on the bottom line. It doesn't create the results that we want it to because so many businesses are listening to consultants that have never worked in a company having to implement and make the change.
Stine:
And I think it's damaging to the trade if you want. Um, because if, if, if you try to implement something, but it doesn't work, obviously you're gonna say CX doesn't work. Right. So, so my whole goal with, apart from I wanted to learn and I wanted to grow, and I wanted to know my colleagues in different companies and different types of businesses was also to raise the voices of those that have their hands dirty. And for us to share our challenges. I mean, if someone had gone through the first two, two years of the time I did in the airport where I felt okay, I mean, I did some stuff that worked, but I did a lot of stuff that I also felt, you know, a year after was just gone. Right. If someone could have told me, you know, I did that and this worked better, or I did that and you should absolutely go that way, but don't do that.
Stine:
I would've saved the airport a lot of years or a lot of, you know, um, lost time basically, because I could have implemented faster and better. And so that was my take on why I've made this community and why it was important for me to have practitioners in it because that is the knowledge, that is the seed of the CX of CX growing as a trade and, and creating the results that we all know it can create. But, um, but, but a lot of the time, it doesn't because you think you need to do it in a certain way that someone with a big name said you should, but then when it comes down to the dirty job of making it work Monday to Sunday, maybe you don't know that trick, you know, and that's the trick that's missing. So basically if, if you want me to sort of narrow down, what I think is the issue in, in this, in CX, as an industry is that there's very little focus on the effort it takes to actually do change management and changing culture, changing behaviour, changing the way you look at your data, all of that stuff, much more focused on that. And we would get so much further, all of us.
Clare:
Mm. You're preaching to the choir over here?
Stine:
Yeah, I know.
Clare:
I guess I think that this subject is being broached very negatively in some spaces. So like in LinkedIn, there are a few guys who, you know, just can't stop, but slagging people off, you know, left right. And center. So it's great to have this conversation in a much more positive frame. Cause I'm personally not so sure it's to do with the individuals, um, who perhaps haven't got their hands dirty. I'm more concerned it's to do with like customer experience being turned into something it's not. So, um, for example, like, like when I was in the front lines with my little dirty hands, I didn't know these influencers or these organizations even existed to be fair customer experience wasn't really a thing when I started out. So my process was all trial and error, you know and again, you kind of coming from an operational route upwards, I think you do have a different perspective and grounding, but CX is being marketed as a bit of a brand that's about strategy and about frameworks and about, um, courses that you can take in a short amount of time to qualify to be a professional. So, so I get that. Um, but you know, in my, where I'm at now, especially with our community and having seen like the rainbow that is customer experience, really like, it's a fusion of lots of different methodologies, isn't it. And when you are down in the trenches to the point you made earlier, you have to understand your stakeholders, the business that you are operating within, the goals of the organization, the employees and the culture and the change management is probably the reason why most customer experience initiatives fail, because it does take a hell of a lot of leadership capability to do that. Yes. And nobody really teaches CX leadership. Do they, or, you know, leadership more broadly. And that's, you know, part reason that in our Women in CX community, we're now, you know, offering keynote speakers, but that's balanced with the expert members who've got their hands on experience doing master classes and case studies and bringing it all to life. Right. Um, so, um, yeah, but I don't really know what, what the answer of this. So what do you think needs to change?
Stine:
Well, one thing I've thought about a lot is the way I, the way I sort of came into CX and when I read the literature that existed at the time, and now please, if there's an author out there that was like, but I wrote a book on that and you say it doesn't exist. So sorry, I didn't read all of the books in the universe. So maybe there is, you know, some great books, but at the time I was following different, you know, hashtags on LinkedIn and, and, and reading articles and all of this. And I think at the time, um, and, and to an extent still today, customer experience was framed as you know, this has to absolutely be the religion of the company. You know, it has to be, you know, the custom has to be at the center and everybody should sort of, uh, wheel into that perspective to make it work.
Stine:
And so the examples of, you know, having Amazon, Google and, and Disney and Zappos and stuff, and, and I think for a company that either is, you know, entertainment industry where really the experiences, what you're selling, that absolutely makes sense. It also makes sense if you're a start-up company where you're starting from scratch and you have to build it up, but to tear an entire airport apart with, you know, 2,500 other companies working at the same airport and, you know, 24,000 employees, are we gonna get return on investment? If we do that exercise? I don't think so, but can we get a return on investment if we do a little bit every day, that makes us more likely to achieve our goals because of how we do the experience. Yes. So for me, I think there are, there is another viewpoint on, you know, putting the customer at the center and that is to view the CX function as a support function, just like, uh, HR is, you know, just like any function that basically is there to support the company, reaching its goals. So that's another thing I have with something that I called the 'CX Blabber' when people are like, oh, we gotta 'wow' the customer, we have to do, you know, confetti bombs and you know, all of this stuff.
Stine:
No, maybe sometimes we're the lubricant that helps us get to where we're going. It's never about only creating a wow moment or those that's great. I'm not saying you shouldn't, but there's a lot of stuff that needs to happen before you reach the point where that makes sense. Right. Mm. So I think there's this, you know, there's CX as the religion where you were in a company where it absolutely makes sense, and it's economically feasible to put the customer at center right now, tear everything apart and rebuild it. And then there is the other one where you look at the customer experience function as basically a support function like any other that helps the company reach its goals, because let's face it. It's not about happy customers. It's about the organization reaching its goals. It's not about wow or confetti it's about either improving the bottom line, or if you're a hospital it's about perhaps in the patient doctor conversation that the patient believes the doctor more than they believe Google.
Stine:
So what can we do at that touch points that makes that difference? How can we make a peak end experience when you leave the hospital, leaving you with that trust in what has happened? You know, that's the organizational goal here. So to say it, you know, in short, the focus has to always be on the organizational goals, and then you tailor your CX effort accordingly. And if you think that you have to tear the entire organization apart and that's a very costly thing, then maybe you shouldn't do CX in that way.
Clare:
I'm just laughing because I remember though, like, um, this wasn't because of any external force like, but I really was the kind of young CX professional who would want to boil the ocean for the customer and like to put them at the heart of everything. Um, and, and the pragmatism, when I, like I said, I know I left this hospitality company, went to supermarket, like this company that I moved to had 190,000 employees, it was a beast, 32 million customers. And I walked in there all fresh faced, really excited, like, right, are we ready to tear it all down and start again?
Clare:
And, you know, the naivety I had that you know, it was even gonna be possible, but then being confronted with the fact that actually customer experience, isn't the be all and end all in every organization. And it's never gonna be, how do you find the roots in, like you say, you know, by understanding the organizational goals and the objectives that can be fulfilled by doing things better for customers. And it might be a process improvement rather than a wow moment, but, you know, just avoiding unnecessary costs because we do something badly for customers or complaints or whatever. So that really resonates with me and having to become much more pragmatic as I've got older. Maybe it just happened anyway, but, you know, it's actually, there's only a finite amount of fucks that you can give when it comes to customer experience.
Clare:
And if you go throwing 'em around on everything as a CX leader or professional, you're gonna burn out so fast. And I did definitely on numerous occasions. So, you know, how do you really get down to the nitty gritties, I love it when you say that word, the nitty gritties of what's important to the organization and what activities am I gonna be working on or helping with, or acting as this support function to help other departments be better at what they do it is actually gonna make the biggest difference. So, so for me, kind of this whole question around return on investment, there's absolutely a hundred percent a return on investment to customer experience or customer experience practices, either by removing costs, that's unnecessary and waste, or if it's in a commercial sense, being able to increase spend or loyalty or whatever else.
Clare:
So I'm not so worried about that, but, but for me, the problem is, is more endemic in like tech vendors, for example, selling customer experience as a technology product that will solve all these problems like that. To me, scares me more than any individual who's not got the hands dirty, is that when, when the future of customer experience is moving to a place where you can buy an off the shelf technology point, that's supposed to fix everything. And it won't, but it's the customer experience word. That's getting the bad name because of these promises that are being made about stuff that really isn't achievable. So, yeah, I think we all need to kind of get back to the roots of this and fix, you know, the basic stuff. Absolutely. Before investing in massive technology projects that will sap all of the investment you could possibly make in making improvements to get back to the nitty gritties of what's really important to the business. And what's really important to people and getting our attention and our time there. So, um, yeah. So like kind of any final thoughts from you on like what needs to change or, or how we need to get there. Is there anything that kinda like sticks in your mind that you wanna get out to the world and share as your perspective?
Stine:
Well, I think one thing is if, you know, if you work on the inside of a company and you are implementing, share it, you know, share what you do, share your successes and share your failures, because that's the only way that the fluff can be punctured and for us all to learn, grow, and move forward and create better results and have better relationships with our customers. Um, I think that's, you know, that's, that's the final thoughts on sort of the industry and what needs to happen. But if I were to sort of say, one thing that I think is extremely important, if you do work on the inside of a company driving CX, or you work on the inside of a company thinking, I want to move into that type of role once that happens, then, um, I can't really say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway, but be unambitious, right.
Stine:
Be unambitious first and foremost. And, and of course, I mean that ironically a little bit, but try to spend some time to figure out what is the one thing that will have the biggest impact at the lowest cost and, and a way to, yeah, well, a quick win. Yes. But also like have one focus. I had so many initiatives going on, like do one thing and do it great. And then do the next thing and do that. Great. Instead of wanting to boil the ocean, as you say. Right. And so just to give an example, uh, if you want to, if you have a strategy we want to deliver excellent customer experience, that is huge. Right. Nobody knows. When are we there really,
Clare:
Are you ever really ever good? Is it a destination?
Stine:
Right? And so the thing that I did is I focused on, you know, the customer feedback, what is the number one negative feedback we get? Employee input, what is their number one challenge? Day in and day out in their everyday life? If you have frontline employees, if you're a business to business company where you have, you know, sales representatives ask them, they are your frontline. Um, and so to really, and, and then hold those two findings up with the organizational goals, you know, what, what is it that we want to achieve and then choose one issue and work on that. Like I've used net promoter score, uh, to drive change because all I did, I wasn't really focused on the score. I don't care that much about the score, but what I did care about is what is our number one theme in the negative comments.
Stine:
And then I didn't wanna see that six months later in the comments. So that was sort of, my goal is to move like the, the, I worked with the security organization in Copenhagen Airport on this. So, to say, okay, what is the number one challenge for employees? Is there any, you know, liaison with the number one complaint or feedback that we get from customers, um, held up against, you know, we do want relaxed customers because we, we want them to shop when they've passed the security check and, and, and so to take one issue at the time, involve the employees in developing those solutions, have them test solutions, come back, give feedback, and do the whole loop again. So, so, so basically like just, just smashing one issue at the time, that's great CX, and it doesn't take a huge setup. It doesn't take a huge budget.
Clare:
Anyone can do it if, if they know how to gather, you know, and collect input, which is basically, you know, send an email to your employees and ask, what is your number one challenge in, in everyday life? And then you do the same thing or over six months later. So, when I say in your degree, that's what I mean, like slash one, you know, fix the holes in the road and slash one issue at the time. And then eventually you get to the point where it does make sense to do confetti bombs and wow moments, but there's a lot of stuff to fix before you're there. And then that makes sense if you are in an organization that has, you know, a history and isn't starting up and constructing itself all over with the customer at the centre of everything.
Clare:
Very sound advice. So I'd just like to thank you. I think it's brilliant that women like us are creating these safe spaces where women or non-gendered communities, can share best practice. And, you know, as you said, learn as much from each other's failures as we do from our successes and, you know, part of the values and the fabric of Women in CX is about collaboration. So it's been awesome to collaborate with you on this podcast today. I'm very excited to be having you deliver your case study, to tell us of the nitty gritties about Copenhagen airport in the community soon. And also that you're gonna be back for our live panel debate at the end of the month on LinkedIn, where we will be talking about the pros and cons of net promoter score. Yes. So thank you.
Stine:
We'll also be seeing each other in London.
Clare:
Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Big, big news coming out about some celebrations happening on International Women's Day, listeners. So stay tuned. If you're in the UK, we have something very exciting coming. Uh, so yeah, that's it from us today. Thank you so much for coming.
Stine:
You are welcome. Thank you so much.
Clare:
Thanks to everybody for listening along. We can't wait to see you next time. Bye for now.
Clare:
Thanks for listening to the Women in CX podcast with me, Clare Muscutt. If you enjoyed the show, please drop us a like, subscribe and leave a review on whichever platform you're listening or watching on. And if you want to know more about joining the world's first online community for women in customer experience, please check out womenincx.community and follow the Women in CX page on LinkedIn. Join us again next time where I'll be talking to another amazing community member this time from the Netherlands about building sustainable CX culture through experience design, see you all then.
