Breaking Barriers: Building Confidence and Reclaiming Self-Worth, with Natalia Cerezo Martin
Episode #803 Show Notes:
Clare:
We’re back with another episode of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast! A series dedicated to real-talk conversations between women in customer experience and technology. For Series 8, we’re raising the bar—pushing boundaries, sparking bold ideas, and challenging the CX status quo. Expect fresh perspectives, fearless discussions, and a celebration of women driving change in our industry. I’ll be your host, Clare Muscutt, and in today’s episode, I’ll be talking to a seriously awesome lady from right here in the UK!
She is a Certified Customer Experience Professional with over 15 years of experience in customer-facing roles. Originally from Spain, she’s led global teams across industries like entertainment, hospitality and cybersecurity. Her action-oriented leadership style challenges norms, especially in male-dominated industries, empowering teams to thrive.
As a Certified Executive and Senior-Level Coach and member of the European Mentoring and Coaching Council, she’s a champion for resilience, adaptability, and continuous growth.
Allow me to introduce you to today’s inspiring guest, Natalia Cerezo Martin!
Clare:
Hi, Natalia!
Natalia
Hi Clare!
Clare
How are you today?
Natalia
I'm brilliant. Today, we're recording, and it's the hottest day so far in the summer, so this is perfect.
Clare
Yeah, it'll probably be autumn by the time this podcast comes out, but it is indeed a very hot day in London today. But welcome to the Inspiring Women in CX podcast.
Natalia
Thank you for having me.
Clare
Yeah, it's wonderful. We've obviously known each other for a long time now. So this is quite a milestone moment, I think, in our relationship. But also welcome to everybody who's listening or watching along wherever you are. So as always on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, we're going to dive straight in there. And I'm going to ask you if you could please tell the audience a little bit more about you, your career journey and how you ended up where you are today.
Natalia
Yeah, I am Spanish and I moved to London 21 years ago, and I always talk about myself as the queen of change. I love change. I started in hospitality, moved into music festivals and entertainment, work for Festival Republic, Glastonbury. Then I moved into venue management, into the O2 and corporate hospitality, and I went into ticketing service customer service. All of it with that customer thread throughout. So, I was responsible for delivering the experience in whatever area I was in. My last corporate job was actually in cybersecurity, managing the customer engagement team and being responsible for the customer journey. I grew it from a small startup to a global 60 million turnover company, being responsible for 40 staff across five different regions.
Clare
Wow, you can't get much more different, can you, festivals than cyber security?
Natalia
Yeah, well then the last bit, and it's where I'm now; this is my last chapter, is I decided to start my own business. I'm focusing now in executive and leadership coaching, working with women to reach success, whatever that means to them in their own terms.
Clare
I've been very lucky to have the benefit of Natalia coaching me as well along the way. I'm so glad that you decided to make that decision. And today we're going to be talking about a huge topic that you and I have been collaborating on since before International Women's Day, which is imposter syndrome. Little drum roll. And I know for sure it's something that, prior to our International Women's Day activities…
Natalia
It was great.
Clare
…I really felt ran my life in many ways. A lot of the anxiety that I felt, particularly around doing new things or being found out as a keynote speaker that somebody was going to figure out that maybe I don't deserve to be there. But, you know, you taught me it really is all about believing in yourself. And it really isn't that much of a straightforward concept, is it? It's easier said than done in a way to believe in yourself. But it's often one of the biggest challenges for those of us who do experience imposter syndrome to master our own self-belief and self-confidence. So, I was just wondering if you might be able to share some of your magical steps in how we can start to take new steps in believing in ourselves. I know I've heard them before, but I'd love the audience to hear them, too.
Natalia
So, I think imposter syndrome can be used as our success catalyst, right? And almost using it as a growth detector, like a Google map. Imposter syndrome, first of all, it affects 70% of the population at one time, right? So you're not alone. You're actually going through the motions that most of us are going through. But you are never feeling imposter syndrome when you're staying within your comfort zone. Right? If you go shopping, if you're with your friends, if you're doing the, I don't know, those service reviews with clients that you have done over and over again, and it's a template, and you're feeling great. This is the comfort zone, right? Imposter syndrome normally shows up when you're exposing yourself in a way that you haven't exposed yourself before. And what it's telling you is like, 'Hey, you're uncomfortable’.
Natalia
Maybe you need to practice a bit more of this. Maybe you need to gain a little bit more knowledge of this. Maybe you can get support on this. The framework for me for imposter syndrome has three parts to it. You should actually use imposter syndrome to cultivate your growth mindset. It's like, what is my development plan? How do I make sure that this becomes my comfort zone?
And on those tap-in moments where you're feeling it, is when you see it and reflect. Also, I want people to become very aware of their emotions. So normally, we're feeling uncomfortable. We're like, I don't want to look into this anymore, right? I want you to look deep into it. I recommend - there is a tool. It's available on the internet for free. It's called the Emotions Wheel. Go and download it. Become a lot more emotionally literate. Because...the more you understand your emotions, the more you can pinpoint the things that you need to attend to.
And the last part is shine. And shine bright. And what do I mean with this, right? One of the things when you're going through the imposter syndrome is you suddenly…”You're rubbish, you're the worst. Oh my God, I can't believe you're in this situation, Clare, again. You've never been able to do this. Why do you think you're able to do now?”Right.
Natalia
And the reality is that throughout our careers, we have all hit amazing milestones. Right. So, you know, when I was in my twenties, I moved to the UK, and not only did I move to the UK, I was driving in the UK on different sides of the road. I was speaking in another language. Then I moved to London, and I decided I want to study, and I got a 2:1 in my career. Over and over, I have data that says to me, you have put yourself in situations that get you out of your comfort zone, and you keep succeeding at them.
And in those situations where we might not consider them successful, where we might consider them a failure, we learned. And what we learned, we have normally implemented it in our daily operational ways. So if you keep collecting all of this in what I call the 'Shine File', you will have so many facts to question back that emotion of being inadequate, not being sufficient and go like, actually, are you sure you're not sufficient? Remember when you did this and this, what emotions were you feeling back there, and how do you feel now about these things? And normally you just go, ‘Oh my God, that was easy. That was all right’. Once you go through that growth, you feel great about it. So those are the three things. But the final part about this design, and it's something that you and I were talking about, is the more you talk about you and how you're shining, you create this ripple effect where A: you might inspire people to share, and B: you might inspire people to tackle the same challenge that you just went through.
Clare
Yeah, and it was quite a lot to unpick there, wasn't there? I'm just thinking about my experience of working with you on this stuff. I found it really helpful in terms of experiencing imposter syndrome as a growth catalyst, or a sign that you're growing, was to try to reinterpret some of the physical sensations that I'd get with anxiety. So, I've got a trick now where instead of going, "I'm nervous, I'm nervous, I'm nervous." I'll go "I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited about doing something." And because the physical symptoms are so similar, anxiety and excitement, actually, I think I can trick my brain now into thinking I'm excited about doing something scary. And talking about emotional literacy, I know how many times you sent me that emotions wheel. And I don't know why, but I do struggle to label my emotions a lot of the time.
I'm definitely that person that would typically feel something negative or perceive it as negative and be like, I absolutely want to shut the door on that straight away. So, you know, you said about taking the time to kind of sit with the feeling and let it be there and to actually…it's a bit like your Shine File or to see that you can tolerate that emotion rather than having to just shut it down has been really powerful for me.
Natalia
Yeah. And you know, I'm going now through some emotions coaching training. And there are six different models to it, but one of them, when I first saw it, is emotions are neither good or bad. I was like, tell me more about this. And the reality is that we judge emotions, right? You love to feel happy, excited, loved. Those are the emotions that I want plenty of them, right?
Clare
Yeah, not judging them.
Natalia
And then you go into sadness, stress, anxiety, and you go, these are bad. I just want them over with. When in reality, all those emotions are highlighting things that you need to address. So the things are not going away. Even if you try to hide emotions, you can, you know, like there are people that hide them by doing lots of activities or like going out drinking with your mates. It comes back to you, right? This is something that is there, and the longer you ignore them, the bigger it can get. The thing is, all these moments and emotions are necessary for us to experience and grow. And the more we, I always say, it's like going to the gym, right? Working with your emotions. If I try to do 15 pushups now, I won't; I’ll probably give you six. I won't give you 15, right?
But if I practice every day, I will give you maybe 20, who knows? And when it comes to emotions and even identifying your emotions, you need to practice. You need to sit there and go ‘Oh, am I feeling scared? Or I'm actually feeling lonely? Or am I feeling undervalued? Am I feeling just…’ There are so many emotions.
Clare
Angry!
Natalia
Yeah, angry! There's all these emotions. And if you're feeling angry, what is what makes you feel angry? What was that part that triggered that feeling in you? And I always say, feed your curiosity. To me, curiosity has taken me to so many amazing places and so many developments in the relationships that I had. As you say, it's about reframing them. You know, there are no good or bad emotions. There are emotions that might make us feel better than others, but all your emotions are valid. And it is important that we recognise them and we give them a space.
Clare
Yeah, I know. I think we'll probably talk a bit more about emotional intelligence during the course of this conversation. And then I was just reflecting on that word not enough or that feeling of not enough. Or conversely, feeling too much. It's interesting, isn't it, that women more typically experience the not-enoughness and the too-muchness? I wondered if you had any perspective on where that maybe comes from and why it's more prevalent in women.
Natalia
Oh my God, I mean, how many times have you been told, even as a child to be quiet, just shut up, you don't need to speak. And even in meetings, I was, on many occasions, I was the only woman in the room, you have had the same situations, right? And how many times have you been spoken over or been told can you take notes? Can you make the tea? So you suddenly are like, and there is a part of us that we've been told that we need to please, that we, you know, we don't need to be, we don't need to disagree. You don't want to create conflict. So that kicks in. That's in the back of our heads. It kicks in. You have grown up being told this, right? And you need to look pretty. Don't be insolent. Don't be insolent. How many times as a child were you told that? And obviously, it becomes part of your DNA, right? So when you step into the corporate world or forgive, entrepreneurship, then you have to step into your power, right?
And there are so many occasions where you have actual facts on people criticising you. Even you know, I was talking to Rebecca Brown yesterday about - I was in a meeting one time with two other ladies. We were talking about our office being refurbished. So we were talking to, we were getting the pitches from the different companies, and one guy came i,n and he's like, who's the decision maker? And we say we are. And he asked again, is there no one else that is a decision maker? And we're like, no, it's us three. Okay. So, no one else needs to sign off on this. The three of us ended up baffled, and then we clicked. We're women, right? He expects someone else to have to give the sign-off.
Natalia
And there's all these mini, these microaggressions that we go through that kind of keep proving - do I want to pick this one? I don't know. Because also you don't want to pick every single one, right? You don't want to go ‘I'm here’. I'm going to create my presence, and I'm going to claim my space because I have a valid point. And a lot of the time, we walk away from a meeting, I did it many times going I should have asked that question. That was a very good question, but I don't want to because I'm going to make him uncomfortable. So I always talk about claim your space because every time you don't ask that question, every time you don't speak up, if your leader is a good leader and they have thought everyone, everything through, you help them to reaffirm that the thinking was right. If there are gaps in their thinking, then you highlight what the gaps are and help them to be a better leader or a better colleague, a better team member.
Clare
And I think that was one of the main messages, wasn't it, from our International Women's Day campaign was that imposter syndrome isn't actually all in our heads. There are actually a lot of systemic root causes of women not feeling included, particularly in workspaces that are male-dominated, where we do question ourselves more than we need to. But it's because we've been working in male-dominated environments where we have been experiencing that, you said, over period of time in our careers, microaggressions that have internalised to some degree to make us think, can I do this? Am I enough? I don't look like a straight middle-aged white man. Can I lead? So I think it's like trying to, you know, we can't dismantle the system, in dismantling that internalised system that we have. The experience has been real for sure, and the more, it's not just about gender is it? It's about race, sexual orientation, neurodivergence, but not letting that be the reason that stops us because it does exist. How do we de-program ourselves?
Clare
I think some of these tools are super handy to do that. The final one I was thinking about was because I know you've done it with me. I quite often experience times where I think I'm stuck, like I'm just not getting anywhere. There's been a period of time where I've stopped making progress in my head. And you'll be like, okay, well, let's look back six months ago, what has actually happened in this last six months? And you get me to reel off all of these incredible milestones that I've hit or goals that were, you know, set years back and have now happened. And the evidence aspects of the, you call it the Shine File, but being able to interrogate, is this really true? A lot of the time, with some of those negative beliefs that we have about ourselves that hold us back from believing in ourselves. It's actually bullshit in our own heads. It's not the truth. Actually, we might be highly capable of having smashed loads of goals and targets, but because I suppose working in a startup environment as an entrepreneur, we move so fast, quite often we don't get to stop and reflect. So if I experience lmaybe even two weeks that I felt like I haven't smashed something massive out of the pot, then I start to think I'm a failure. What the hell?
Natalia
Yeah, but it's also, it's really addictive, right? Because in startups, you also do things very quickly and there's big things that happen really quickly. So that dopamine goes through the roof, right? So if you don't, if you're not getting those hits, you're like, this is why it's really important. Because you forget, you will forget. If I say to you, tell me about the milestones that you hit in 2021.
Clare
Constantly, yes.
Natalia
You'll be like, who has time for that? I'm life-ing, right?
Clare
Life is life-ing.
Natalia
So this is busy. So if you go and you have…my Shine File is a One Note document. And I have the years. I create just a table, and I put three things that I did very well and three things I learned that month. And I just grow it and grow it. So, I can tell you what I did in 2020. That was really good. And obviously, for me now, that's super little, right? That doesn't really matter. But to Natalia, 2020, that was huge. Now, those things that I learned are just defaulting in my head. They just click. So this is why it's really important to see how we grow because it's really easy to forget when we're in that time that we might not grow in, or we're fear-stuck, or we're down. Because we all have those times. We're never going to stay up here all the time.
Clare
Yeah, constantly. And I'm relating this back to customer experience now, you know, talking about emotional intelligence, haven't we in customer experience, emotional intelligence and awareness are especially critical. Not only thinking about customer interactions but also gaining leadership buy-in or even managing internal team dynamics. So, how can we use emotional awareness to help us to navigate imposter syndrome? Is there anything else that we haven't talked about?
Natalia
Well, I think especially, you know, when it comes to CX, and you collected data in 2023, right? About imposter syndrome in customer experience is higher than in other industries.
Clare
For women, yes.
Natalia
Right. And you have 84% of respondents that actually say, ‘Yes, I experienced it’. When the average in the world is 70%. Right. So there are these, I think there's this uncertainty constantly in CX, right? Because you're constantly trying to show more tangible value. Because you're, there's a lot of people that might say, well, you're not a revenue generated, right? And you go well, tell sales that. Because if they don't go through these different touch points that I create and curate, they won't do the sales as well. And once we are post-sale, if they don't go through all these different touch points, they will not renew. But you're constantly trying to be very creative at evolving. And the thing about customer experience, there is that part of you that your focus is constantly on what else can I be doing? So there is this continuous improvement mindset for all of the professionals that is attached to their work and to their person. Therefore you always step into uncomfortable territory that is unknown because you might be the first person doing it.
Clare
I suppose because you're coaching quite a lot of women that work in the customer experience industry. Are there any similarities that you see between us, or typical…?
Natalia
Well, I think, as women, we need to work on our confidence constantly. It's part of the Shine File that we were talking about. We need to work on that. But we need to work a lot on visibility. We tend to make ourselves small. We just don't want to be visible. Even when we're acing it, I'm just like, OK, who do you share this with? Where is it published? How do you share it with your team, your company? Have you published it in the community or on LinkedIn? How are you creating that personal brand? Because not forget that now personal brand is at the top. You should always be very aware of how you're building your personal brand because this is what gets you into the next job. This is what gets you that promotion. This is what gets you that speaking gig or that funding or that client if you're an entrepreneur. Right?
So we need to do more of that. We need to be more visible. We go back to that shine aspect, right? Because we need to have more role models to look around. So, I see that we shy away from those things, and therefore if we're more visible, we actually would get probably more feedback, positive and negative, you know, but more feedback. Then we can keep increasing our development path, can keep increasing our log file and then we keep inspiring each other and supporting each other. I think those three aspects for me are the ones that I see the most.
Clare
Yeah, that's really helpful. So, back to your story again. Was there ever one particular barrier or challenge you've overcome to become the woman you are today? It could be either personal or professional. Is there anything that you'd like to share with our audience?
Natalia
Well, I think for me the biggest one was moving into cybersecurity. This is because I’m always very high energy. Obviously, I was used to the music industry concerts. And suddenly I'm there, and I'm like, I do not know anything about this. I constantly - I was sitting, I still remember a conversation with someone. I was sitting on a sofa two months in, and I thought they had the wrong person. I don't know why I'm here. I don't know this. I sit in meetings and I make notes and I don't really know what it means. I read them, and I can't interpret. So it was very important because someone said to me, and that really stayed in my head, the moment a company hires you, they know you're amazing. Otherwise, they're not going to hire you for pitness, for charity. They are going to hire you because they think you're good, you have experience, and you can bring something to them. So instead of trying to prove your value that they already know, just focus on the learning, focus on building the relationships.
Natalia
I had a really good manager at the time, that he actually gave me really clear goals. He's like, ‘Hey, this is what I expect from you. If you hit this, I'm happy”. And it was all very much about listening and this was the first time that formally happened to me. One of my goals was to get a mentor. And I was like, okay. And I never had an official mentor. You always have unofficial mentors, people that help you. But it's the first time I didn't have one, I had two. So, I have a leadership mentor and a technical mentor. And my technical mentor, I will go to him and say there are all these terms I don't really understand. I want you to explain it to me as if I was a five-year-old.
And they created that environment where I could be very vulnerable and say, I don't understand. And this is the important part, right? How do you create this psychological safety so that people say, I don't really understand. And they don't feel like, ‘Oh my God, I'm going to find that - I'm going to be found out, they're going to think I'm rubbish’. That was a really hard learning for me. But the thing is when you do customer experience, you could do it anywhere. You can do it in a club, or you can do it on an airline, or you can do it in a cyber security space because the basics are the same. And then it's all about bringing your uniqueness to it. So, if you feel like you're not in an environment where you can say, I don't really know, join a community where you can say, how many times do you see, ‘Guys, I need to do this project. Who can help? Who has experience? Please give me some tips.’ Because it's really important to say I don't know. And knowing that you're not going to be judged.
Clare
Yes! I was going to say that I don't think that is an unusual experience because when I transitioned from hospitality, so Whitbread and Compass Group into retail Sainsbury's, I walked in expecting that because I understood customer experience, this would be easy. I can just go and apply what I know to this new industry. And I did do, I think what you're saying - I didn't own that I didn't know. I was just desperately trying to hide the fact, I didn't really understand what was going on. And it was really, it was made it so hard, like harder than it needed to be. And I actually got checked by a really senior manager who created that psychological safety and said you know, we don't expect you to know how commercial retail works. And it's okay, you've only been here 10 days, you don't have to know everything. And she advised me just to take that time to learn about the business rather than trying to jump straight into action.
So, suppose that would be my tip, being older and wiser now if I was in that same situation again, like I am now with Women in CX Consulting House, working with clients in things like the energy industry, but I literally have no idea. Well, I had no idea about what was going on in there, but I still needed to come in and be able to apply my craft. But owning the fact that I don't know and asking the obvious questions and being like, what does that acronym mean? Building a glossary, you know…
Natalia
Yeah.
Clare
…being able to own that and actually say, I don't know, this isn't familiar to me, I've come from this kind of background and people being, actually, yeah, I can explain that to you. And they're not ever rude about it or - it's that same thing, isn't it? So my imposter syndrome would say to me, you need to know everything to be good. Whereas the truth of it is actually, you can be vulnerable and say I just don't know. I'm new to this. Own that, be vulnerable about it, get the help you need and make your life a hell of a lot easier if the ego bit of the imposter syndrome isn't telling you you should know this Clare, you should know all of this already.
Natalia
And you touch on a very good point, I think it deserves a highlight. You don't need to know everything. You just need to ask good questions.
Clare
Yeah. That's it. I know. One of the members in our community put on a post the other day about… I've just moved into this new company and what should I do? My number one piece of advice was just to take the first 90 days to ask questions and listen before you try to make any decisions or changes. And trust me, because based on the fact that I didn't do that when I made a massive transition.
Natalia
Like it changes, but even we were taught - I went to a training session on change, right? And they were talking about the emotions, the feelings that you have when change happens and, you know, someone was saying, I'm really angry. I just want to point out all the things that they're doing wrong. And I'm like, do it, but ask it as a question. Have you considered this? How is this going to impact this? Right. Because you are collaborating.
So it's about building that collaboration constantly, whether you're at the start of the job, or whether your job is going through major change. If you're in a board meeting and you're like, what the heck, haven't you listened to all these other things? So question, ask good questions that build collaboration and put you in the perspective of a supporter for everything and anything that you're involved in.
Clare
Yeah, that's good. And as we've been talking so much about community, that's my second to last question is, obviously, you're involved in our community, but also a lot of other communities. How has being part of a community for you really advanced your personal/professional journey?
Natalia
Well, when I decided to start my training as an executive and leadership coach, I turned to Women in CX for my guinea pigs, and I was like, does anyone want to? And, you know, it was amazing because I got to experience people in big corporations and also startups. And that was that part of the support. But last year when we were at the Women in CX conference, I was very doubtful of what I wanted to do next. And I was in that room surrounded by so many awesome women, so many great topics that we touched. And you ask us, what would you like to achieve in the next 12 months? I think that was the question, right?
Clare
Yeah, where'd you like to be in a year?
Natalia
And I was like, I actually want to be coaching women. And then we went for dinner, and I met one of my guinea pigs, Susanna.
Clare
Susanna Baque.
Natalia
Susanna Baque and Susanna went, if you start your business, I would be your client. And it was that very day, the 10th of October, that I just went, I get goosebumps. I'm telling the story, and I'm getting goosebumps. It was that very day that I was like, why would I not try? I already have people that are supporting me. And you know, you have been such an advocate for me. I was like I want to talk more about imposter syndrome. I'm so tired of it. And this is all the things that I'm doing myself. And I have been doing it for years, and you're like, yeah, that's an amazing topic. Let's go and do it. And I think when you have a community of people that you're like, I have a crazy idea. And someone goes, yeah, that's a nice idea. Go do it. It's great. And also when you go I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Then it's like, well, let me help you.
Clare
Try it, yeah.
Natalia
I had Lara Khouri as a mentor. It's just the support of the community is so important. And now also as an entrepreneur, I belong to a business accelerator and that support of, we know nothing because we're so lost because I'm very, I'm an excellent coach. I'm so amazing. I'm not great at social media and marketing and sales. It's really great to learn from each other and share best practices. It's a community that can be as good or as bad as you make it. And you put in time, you get back in abundance.
Clare
So true! So, on that note, Natalia, what would one piece of advice or your top takeaway be for the Women in CX podcast listeners?
Natalia
Well, start your Shine File if you haven't done it yet. Start it. Make sure that you put a reminder in your calendar every month, every week, whenever you want to do it. It won't take you more than 10 minutes but do it. Then make sure you talk about it, right? Because you will inspire other people to do the same. And that ripple effect is priceless. Whenever you're feeling in that imposter moment, just sit with it. Understand where it's coming from, what's the nature, what's the emotion and where do you want to go with it? What are the areas that you might need to develop or grow? What support might you need? And just do not try to run away. Just look at it and sit side to side as if it was a friend that you just had a little argument with.
Clare
They're really good tips. So thank you to everybody who listened or watched along and thank you so much, Natalia. It's been wonderful to have you on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast. And yeah, just a thank you from the bottom of my heart because of the coaching sessions you had with me earlier this year. You know, I've actually went for it and did my IVF cycle, which I was um-ing and ah-ing and for years about doing, wasn't I? So it really helped me to get focused and actually step into action.
Natalia
Thank you.
Clare
And also to take Buster to his very first show, which we won. When we were doing our goal setting of the things I wanted to achieve, the two huge ones that I don't think maybe I would have made time for it or would have kept putting it off or I wouldn't have registered him for that show. And yeah, it's been epic to have worked with you as well as got to know you in the community and beyond. And I'm just really glad you're part of Women in CX and that you made that decision to become an executive leadership coach because you're brilliant at it!
Natalia
Well, thank you. Thank you for your kind words. You know, I vibe off women's energy and I think what you have created is quite magical. And there are all these different benefits that we are getting out of it. So thank you so much. Thank you to the Women in CX community. Thank you to anyone that is listening and, you know, just keep shining bright.
Clare
Keep shining. We're trying not to cry now. We're both welling up, aren’t we? Well, we'll see you all next time, bye for now. Thank you. Bye. Bye Natalia. Ciao ciao!
Natalia
Bye.
Clare:
Thanks for listening to the Inspiring Women in CX podcast with me, Clare Muscutt. If you enjoyed the episode and you don’t already, please, please, please do drop us a like and subscribe to our channel – the bigger the following, the bigger the impact we can create on our mission to amplify the voices of women working in CX and technology! Well, that’s all for now! See you again next time!
