Clare Muscutt talks with Crystal D’Cunha about employee experience design and being a mompreneur.
Episode #506 Show Notes:
Clare:
Welcome to the 6th episode of the fifth series of the Women in CX podcast. A series dedicated to real-talk conversations between women in Customer Experience. Listen in as we share our career stories, relive the moments that shaped us and voice our opinions as loudly as we like about all manner of CX subjects. I'll be your host, Clare Muscutt and in today's episode, I’ll be talking to a truly remarkable community member from Ontario, Canada. She’s the President and CEO at The INSIDE View, an award-winning Customer Experience Engineer and an Executive Leadership Coach passionate about CX and improving people’s lives, one moment at a time. As CX professionals, she believes we have the ability to use design thinking tools and techniques to masterfully design delight all around us! Let me introduce you to today's inspiring guest. Please welcome to the show, CX sister, Crystal D’Cunha.
Clare:
Hey, Crystal.
Crystal:
Hi, Clare. How are you?
Clare:
I'm really good. How are you, girl?
Crystal:
Fantastic. Fantastic. So excited to spend the morning with you.
Clare:
Well, welcome to the women in CX podcast.
Crystal:
Thank you so much!
Clare:
And welcome to everybody who's listening along as well. This is a super exciting episode because Crystal and I first connected on Instagram when I was first talking about wanting to build this community thing and telling my stories and you reached out to me and we ended up, I think, jumping on, was it an Instagram call even? Maybe?
Crystal:
I think it was, yeah, I'm just thinking. I'm like, yeah, it was, it feels like it was forever ago, but it was just during the pandemic. But yeah, it was, it was a great little Instagram connect. I don't even know how I found you on Instagram. Something must have come up on CX and yeah, the rest is history.
Clare:
Yeah. So, Crystal became one of our earliest founding members and came along on the co-design journey with us and has been here ever since. So, how's it all going for you? Are you enjoying the community?
Crystal:
You know what? This community is so infectious. It's fantastic. There's just such a support. I love the collaborative nature of it. When anybody needs something, there's just this community of women that are really committed to seeing each other grow and succeed. So yeah, it's been a fantastic journey so far.
Clare:
Yeah, and this piece of content actually is related to how we support our members with content opportunities and raising their profile because Crystal is going to be coming into the community to do a masterclass on employee experience in a couple of weeks. So, we're super excited for that. So, Crystal, I'm going to start by asking you the question I ask all of my guests and the answers are always so different, can you tell us how you found your way into CX and where you are today?
Crystal:
Ooh, how I found my way into CX. So, you know what, it kind of happened by fluke. I didn't know that the work I was doing really was customer experience design. I really didn't have a clue. I came from retail, so I spent a good 15 years in the retail industry across the Canadian landscape. Had an opportunity to open new stores for this retailer and hire teams and design. I was designing experiences for that consumer that was walking through the door because the product we were selling was leather. And so it was a real tactile experience. you know when somebody puts on a leather jacket, they stand a little taller. They're, you know, they're feeling the leather jacket, their whole aura changes and it was, it was definitely an experience factor. And so, for 15 years, I wasn't selling to people.
Crystal:
I was really improving their life when they put on that leather jacket and it was, it was creating an experience. The stores we were designing were creating experiences. We were really following that user journey. Looking back, that's what it was. But at the time, we didn't know what it was called. Right, and then I transitioned into the construction industry and I became, I was leading the sales department there and I was doing the same thing. We were designing an experience for that customer that was going through a new home-building process. And I found that a lot of the people that had been in that organization for a long time, they knew their job. They knew construction, they knew engineering, they knew design. They knew exactly what they needed to do in those departments. However, you know, for me as a sales department, I wasn't just thinking of my job.
Crystal:
I was thinking about that experience. How is a customer feeling when they walked through our model homes? What were they smelling? What were they looking at, if they decide to open a drawer, you know, what were they going to see and how is that going to impact them emotionally? And so all those little touches I didn't realize was creating an experience until I realized it. So, now I've led my own company now for seven years and really took all of those design elements that I was learning and said, no, this is all about customer and employee experience, right. And I was really successful because my employees always came first. It was always about making sure that my team, I never called them employees. I always called them team members or my crew, but they were really, it was so important to me to be able to make sure that they were, you know, raving fans and excited.
Crystal:
I remember I'd get my bonus at my retail job, and the first thing I would do was take everybody out for dinner. And, you know, so it was a team effort, right? They would all, they would all support the vision and the goals and the mission because they were all rewarded, you know, along the way. So, ultimately, I was doing it by default. And now, you know, at The Inside View, I'm able to really do it by design and help and transition people's mindsets from understanding kind of that old school way of doing it to the new school way of doing it.
Clare:
Ah, I love that. And honestly, if I had a dollar for every time I met a woman in CX who was on her way into the community who tells me the same story, I literally had been doing this for years, but didn't know it was CX and then when I kind of came into a career and eventually got a job title with it, it's applying all of that kind of intuitive stuff that I think as customer people, we maybe got from the shop floor or in our time working in hospitality, plus, all of that experience we've gained in roles that actually when we've dialed it back, the purpose that we were serving was to improve things like customer and employee experiences and then getting a job title and going, okay, this, I've been doing this a long time, it's not my first role in customer experience. So, I totally feel that and yeah, and definitely I remember, I bought a very expensive leather jacket a long time ago, still got it to this day, an All Saints, leather jacket and that feeling of like the touching of the leather, the squaring of the shoulders. It does just have that vibe.
Crystal:
Yeah, and it smells right, the leather smells, it really appeals to all your senses and looking back, it was, that was part of it. It was like, I didn't realize that anytime I designed something, anytime I was selling a product, I wasn't just selling it. I was paying attention to all the senses. I was paying attention to the sites, the smells, everything and that was the difference for my success, and I think, you know, others because I was really focused on that, really focused on every element of it.
Clare:
Yeah, and I guess that's, you know when people are talking about 'how do we improve a return on investment of CX', well, if you design an experience that drives revenue, people want to buy more, buy more expensive, because the value increases, right. With the experience.
Crystal:
Yeah. And they're emotionally connected.
Clare:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that analogy. It's a really great story. So, obviously now, you know, you've got your amazing business that you set up yourself and you've grown at The Inside View and obviously I just love hanging out with you full stop, but I find you super inspiring, and your energy is so infectious. I just wondered, was there a particular challenge or barrier that you've had to overcome to become this incredible woman that you are today?
Crystal:
Aw, you're so sweet. Thank you so much, Clare. And right back at you, you're more than inspirational. You don't even know how inspirational, but...
Crystal:
You know, challenges, there's probably tonnes, but two in particular I would say is I think it's a little bit of the fear and the imposter syndrome I think start to set in sometimes. You know, I'm really confident in what I do. I love what I do, I know I make an impact, but I think there's two things. So, I'm an independent mom, I think I've told you that several times. My son is 19 and he's my superstar and it really, you know, in the earlier days of starting The Inside View, it was a big fear factor. You know, I'm leaving a six figure career to be an, you know, I've always been an independent mom, but to do this on your own with no safety net, yeah, it was tough. And those first three months I was like, what am I doing?
Crystal:
You know? And my son was, he was 12, I think. Yeah, he was 12 at the time. And he was like, mom, you just got to do it. You just got to do it. And I'm like, oh sweetheart, you have no idea. I've got to do it, but you don't, you don't know if we can't pay the mortgage if we can't. Right. So those, all those fears were really setting in and how I got over it was literally that it was the third month and I got to this luncheon and, I don't know how I got to the luncheon. I'm like, do I really need to spend an extra hundred dollars on a plate of pasta for lunch? Like I really, I wasn't sure if I even wanted to go to this luncheon because I hadn't gotten a client yet.
Crystal:
And so, I get there, and I sit beside this lady who's like, I've been looking for you for months. I didn't realize you had left the construction industry. And 48 hours later, she was my client and she paid me really well, and I did really great work for her. And seven years later, she's still, we still work together. So, you know, that fear of having that faith in yourself, and I think just because of the fact that I was, you know, alone and I didn't have that support system that I, sometimes I told myself like, oh, you know, you're alone. Maybe you should take a job. Maybe you should be more secure. You should be more responsible. But then I kind of battled myself and I'm like, no, you know what you're doing, and you have the skills to be able to do this.
Crystal:
And your way is unique because every time I do tell somebody to me, it seems like it's normal. And they're like, oh, that's so interesting. And I'm like, I have something here. And so, I just had to kind of get over that fear of my own that, that self-talk, I called it limiting beliefs really, because it was those things that I was believing to be true but were absolutely not true. Right. And even my education. So, I chose not to finish university. I chose to educate myself in, you know, doing the Disney, doing the Tony Robbins, doing the John Maxwell, all of that stuff that inspired me and filled my cup is what I chose to do. Versus, you know, that the, the university because two years in and I was kind of like twiddling my thumbs. It just wasn't for me. It was not bringing me joy. I was, instead I was organizing these great events at university and spending all my time in social spaces, fundraisers and fashion shows and all sorts of fun stuff. But it really wasn't bringing me joy because I love people and I really like to design things for people. So, I don't know if that answers your question. I hope it does.
Clare:
But it's a great example. I guess, as an entrepreneur myself, I have like the ultimate admiration and respect for mompreneurs because I found it so hard and especially leaving a six figure salary, starting my own consulting practice, but I didn't have anyone depending on me for that. And the fear I felt at that time was astronomical. So, the respect I have for women who take on that same level of fear with a higher risk, I have the ultimate respect for. But yeah, you know, that kind of passion and fun aspect to you totally shines through. So, it doesn't surprise me that when you're at uni you were doing all the fun stuff and organizing events and bringing people together and, it's horses for courses, isn't it? You know, formal education in the traditional sense of what we think we're supposed to do, doesn't really work for everybody and being able to figure that out early on, I'm sure has played a real hand in you being able to make these big, courageous career decisions to follow your passion and what you do enjoy to this day. So, good on you.
Crystal:
Sometimes it held you back, right? It was like, well, you need a degree for this, and you need a degree for that. And it was only for a split second that it held me back, but sometimes it did, it settles in with you. You're like, oh, I need, you know, you need a degree to have that position. And then I'm like, oh, wait a minute. I do have the position already and I am getting the interview calls and I am getting the offers. And, you know, so when those start to happen, they really feel rewarding. And as a woman of colour as well, right there, there's times where I've seen other people get the job where I'm more qualified for it. I mean, I can go on for that list, that's happened many times. And so, when those start to happen, you start to feel validated that wait a minute, maybe you're not good enough and so it's just really pulling yourself off and having that self-motivation. I always try to look at things like that life and, you know, I've been through some things and so life is really happening for me, not to me. I really try to re kind of position that thought, as in everything that's happening, whether I lose the job, whether I gain the job, whether I, you know, do whatever I do, it's because it was meant to happen for me, not to me.
Clare:
Like that pasta choice that day and ended up sitting next to a woman who became your first client. That happened serendipitously, right? It wasn't planned or it wasn't structured, it just occurred because you were out there putting yourself out there, taking the chance. And I guess that just really resonates with me, this whole concept of limiting beliefs because I have had so many. And like you say, there are things that happen that reinforce those limiting beliefs. And if you're focusing on looking for evidence of the thing that reinforces those negative thoughts or the limiting beliefs, you find infinite evidence. And that crosses you and keeps you playing small. But like you said, you know, when you're changing your mindset and perspective and you start to question, well what if that is actually not true? How do I start looking at evidence to the contrary?
Clare:
And you do start to find so much more of that and yeah, just totally, totally with you on that one, Crystal. So, just digging in a little deeper into kind of, you know, you and I are both experience designers, I know my passion and skill lie in Service Design, CX Design and you talked about employee experience design alongside your skills and customer experience design just for the audience, I guess for me as well, because this is, I guess because I've focused so much on the customer side, what is the difference between CX and EX design or are they the same? What are the similarities and differences between the two?
Crystal:
Yeah, I mean, I try to take this similar approach to EX design as I do for CX design. I think the one difference is you want your employees to really feel like family, but you also want your customers to feel like family. So, there is kind of that element of it. But there's this element of loyalty and retention that you want that employee to really feel, and I notice this often in the Niagara region. So, we live in wine country here in Niagara, in Niagara Falls, Canada and we have a really big hospitality sector, tourism sector. And I think it's important for a lot of the organizations here to understand that you might only have your team for a season and that's okay. You know, McDonald's is a great example.
Crystal:
They hire young folks with that idea that they're only going to be with them for a limited amount of time. And when they're with us, we're going to make the biggest impact on them so that they can go and conquer the world. And I think often organizations kind of feel like, well, if I'm investing in them, then they've got to stay with me. And if I'm training them and I'm developing them, then I want them to stay with me. Absolutely. But you can't limit somebody either. And if they feel limited by that, they feel like you're not going to push them forward, then that employee experience starts to really dwindle. Right? And we know with Generation Z and Generation Alpha that's going to come after it. And we know that these are really important elements to making them feel full and fulfilled in their careers.
Crystal:
So that employee experience, when you compare it to customer experience, we have to really understand the generation that we're working with. I did a talk last week on multi-generational workforces and, you know, really understanding that we have to be customized in every approach when it comes to the employee experience. You've got a team of a hundred people, you will have multiple generations under one workforce. And that same way of training and development, that same way of coaching that you might be used to, will not work for every generation. At least it won't work successfully, right? Everybody has a different learning style and a different expectation, different work ethic and so it's, the job is harder for leaders because we do have to be custom. We do have to tailor things a little bit more. And as a leader, you know, you have to adjust, right? You have to adjust, still keep your own fascinating approach. Like you are a leader that inspires for a reason, but adjusting your technique, right? Your people skills to the person that you're working with.
Clare:
Yeah. I suppose that's a similarity, in a way, isn't it? Because it's kind of like describing personas with different attitudes and demographics and we don't design one size fits all experiences if people are different. So, that kind of generational aspect I think is super interesting, but I think for me it's also like on the employee journey, being able to build in touchpoints that help to ensure there are things like purpose and values alignment. And that through the interview process and recruitment process, being able to identify cultural fit and things. Because I think that's sometimes the hardest thing, isn't it? When we've not done a good enough job designing an experience that means that we get the type of employee that wants to be here, that that's not going to work out. And then how do we build in reinforcement of our culture and values throughout their experience through onboarding and like you say, training, reward, recognition.
Clare:
So they feel that thing that they identified with when they first joined and wanted to be part of this, that we know that we're aligned to, actually being true. Because I think that's the other worst thing isn't it is companies have statements around the purpose and values plastered on walls and you never hear about it again, it's just an externally facing thing and yeah, those kind of touch points that we do have with teams, employees, people, right through to, you know, how line managers behave, you know, they have to embody that culture and values, don't they, otherwise why are we here and what are we trying to do? And I know I've experienced that myself in the past and I hear it a lot from women in the community, when they talk about their bosses not doing or doing things that are completely against the company values that they signed up to, agree to, which kind of leads me into my next question around toxic cultures because I know that you've been working with this kind of concept of toxic bosses, toxic cultures, and being able to uncover the cultural issues that drive them and being able to change them. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that?
Crystal:
Yeah, well it aligns so well with your first question, you know, what are those similarities between the two? Because in the leadership training that we work with teams on, you know, we've got these seven elements of leadership experience excellence that we train people on. And the first one is vision vitals, the second one is lovesick leadership, and the third one is culture connection. And it's really about designing a culture that feels like a family, right? And so, I look at traditions, you know, as an East Indian, I've got all sorts of traditions that, Canadian, born and raised Canadian, but an East Indian background and we have so many different traditions with our family, with our friends, with you know, just the way we, when we buy a new car, there's a blessing.
Crystal:
There's all sorts of things that we do as traditional. And so those type of traditions are something that will, you know, live on for years and they've lived on for generations. And so I challenge organizations to take a look at what are your traditions? They might be happening by default at the moment, but you know, every year we have a new opportunity to create a new tradition. And so, taking a look at those different traditions that you have and really establishing them so that they're rooted in your culture and then of course bringing in diversity, equity, and inclusion best practices because we have to, you know, if we want to be successful, a successful organization in the future, we've got to stop talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion and then really start practising it. And what are the tactical things we're going to do every single day that align our culture to be able to practice those things?
Crystal:
Which kind of brings me back to the employee experience journey is, you know, when we're designing that persona, when we're designing that ideal candidate, that top talent that we're all looking for, we sometimes have to look in the mirror first and say, you know, what would top talent come to us?
Clare:
Yeah. Are we good enough for them?
Crystal:
Are we good enough to them? Because we want this top "Oh, crystal, you know, we want the best person, we want the best candidate". Well, my friend, we don't have, well first of all, we're not attracting the best candidates. So you haven't been the best in the past, but now you want the best. So, why would they trust that you're going to be the best? Right? So, we have to be able to attract them. Number two is when, what's that hiring process like? Do you have the best, the coolest hiring process?
Crystal:
Have you mapped out that journey so that the hiring process is engaging and enticing and exciting, not challenging and frustrating and fear-filled or, you know, just not interesting, right? So, designing that onboarding process or the hiring process, an interviewing process, once they're hired, are you just giving them, you know, the contract to sign via email or are you creating that signing experience as something really cool? And I take inspiration from, like I said, I'm a football mom and so, you know, my son, when he signed for university, it was a really cool experience. There were balloons and you know, cameras and it was super fun. And that's a signing experience. He's committed to them, right? For four years. He is committed to that team and everything that it involves. And it's like, that should be your team member.
Crystal:
You're hiring somebody. We have to create an experience right from the get-go. Even if it's a small gig, right? Even if it's a, because that small gig is the one that's really impacting your customer experience. That entry-level position is typically the one that's communicating with your customer. So, if you're creating that experience for them, they're going to in turn create that joy and they understand what's expected of them, right. For the customer. So, when you're designing that persona, that employee journey, and you're going through the journey, often organizations will just look at the journey once they've been hired. But I think it's really important to... attracting them, the hiring process, that 90-day onboarding or first 21 days or however people, you know, whatever fits your world. But are you creating an experience and then at that three-month mark, does it just drop or does it continue?
Crystal:
Right? What are their expectations and involve them in the process. So, if you're an organization that's saying, "okay, crystal, today I want to start doing this", well, the first thing is to really be able to go back and start to identify what you're doing right and what's not right, right? So, using that journey map or an ideation session with your current team to say, "Hey, I'm, I'm going to be vulnerable here and I'm not going to ask questions, but I really need that info". I said, when we do focus groups with a lot of organizations, we get that juicy info. It's not just a survey where you're going to get the answers to the questions that you want, right? It's a focus group where you're going to get the answers to the questions you didn't even know you had because you know, when you're doing those surveys, well, I want to know this. So, that's what you're going to find out. But in a focus group conversation, typically led by an external person, you're going to get some...
Crystal:
Rich, delicious info that you're either going to love it or hate it, but it's going to really help to design a cool experience going forward.
Clare:
Yeah. Yeah. And kind of that crossover point as well, right? So, designing the employee experience and in discovery, I talk to employees as much as I talk to customers like you say, you know, getting those juicy details about what's not working because a lot of kind of customer experience problems typically are due to operational process issues that if you just listen to your team, they'll tell you what needs to change in that first part of, you know, fixing as is. But being able to coordinate kind of across customer and employee experience design is where the ultimate kind of return on this kind of thinking and investment goes. And yeah, I just obviously we're on the same page about this, but how often they're treated completely independently or treated in a very similar way.
Clare:
Not connected in the slightest, but like you say, just go for a survey. And it's more about the scores that you get on a survey for customers and employees than it ever is about actually driving change or delivering the experience or the culture that we're trying to create. And, for me, I guess this new dimension I've now got about community and having built a community of women from around the world, you know, being able to have a mindset of an employee community and like you say, you know, getting involved in co-designing, co-creation of their experience. I think again, this is like a kind of mindset shift and something that, you know, the silos between HR and marketing sometimes helps make that void deeper. I'm just conscious of time because I know you've got to go in like four minutes, so that's...
Crystal:
Okay. I've got a little, I just sent them a quick message, so I've got a few more minutes. But, oh, I just wanted to share one little tip as you were saying that is, I actually have belonged to this other group and I was having dinner with a colleague, like a whole group of women, and we're sitting and chatting about some of the challenges and she was, she's in HR and she says, you know, it's such a frustrating time right now. We're just not able to find people and you know, I'm trying, it's not a business group, so I'm trying not to like consult and give my advice. Just listen, right? And she's saying, she said, you know what, this guy that's been with us for a year walked into my office today and he's like, you know, tomorrow's a year that I'll be with the company...
Crystal:
And I get a raise right after a year? And she's like, you know, I was so upset that people are, you know, think that they can just come in and ask for a raise. And I said, you know, do you deserve a raise? And he goes, well, yeah, I've been here for a year. And she's like, all right, well we're going to do the employee review and then once we do the employee review, we'll analyse things, and we'll see. And he left and she really felt that that was the right thing to do. And I was inside thinking, oh my gosh. Like what, how do I coach this?
Crystal:
Because it was like, first of all, employee reviews are archaic, and we shouldn't be doing them anymore. My personal opinion, we should be doing consistent coaching all year round and not, you know, not something that's just focused on one particular incident and moment in time, but also, you know, what's that employee thinking now as he leaves that office, she's now created fear that there's going to be an employee review and he may not get his raise. And like, as opposed to being like celebrating that one-year anniversary and being full of joy, that he's been committed to an organisation, they've been committed to him, now he's got a completely different moment of truth. Now he's got a completely different emotional mindset and what does that spark? Well, that sparks him perhaps looking elsewhere, right? And so that, those are the type of things that we really want to be mindful of when we're connecting with people because the shift in employee expectations has shifted just as much as it is consumer expectations is employees expect us to, you know, get ahead of that, you know, instead send them the, if employee reviews is something you're still doing, you know, send that email a month in advance, "Hey, we're so looking forward to your one year, let's do a coffee, connect and let's make sure that you're set up for your next year."
Crystal:
What a difference in conversation.
Clare:
And even automation could do that for you, couldn't it?
Crystal:
I mean, absolutely, right. There are so many ways, it's the simple things that really design delight, so,
Clare:
Oh, I agree. I agree and yeah, I had, I was going to, apologies for anyone watching on video that Meg just appeared! She's coming in for a team meeting, but she realized that we were here together. So, I guess my kind of final question before I ask your tip is just about, I guess ROI really, because kind of, we've mentioned some real big examples in this session alone, but you know, this is always this continuous issue that CX professionals will be impressed to prove the return on investment of the whole of customer experience as a concept rather than, you know, kind of making changes and seeing what happens on commercial metrics. Do we have the same issue with employee experience and is there a kind of simple answer to what is the ROI of EX?
Crystal:
There's actually, you know, I like to use, I'm all about the results. And so, depending on the organization I'm working with, depending on how toxic the culture might be and how, you know, what that leadership expectations are, listen, my methodology is always to ignite leaders, then to excite the employees and then ultimately together they're delighting customers. So, I don't, when leadership teams call me and say, you know, "Crystal, I need you to work with my sales team, I need you to work with my customer service team", I usually pump the breaks. And I usually say, before I do that, I need to educate the leaders on what this is all about, right? And so that's really, it's been hard to say no sometimes because that is what they want, but it's really important for us to be able to make sure that those leaders understand what we're going after here and that emotional connection we're trying to get.
Crystal:
But there are some really great formulas in terms of capturing the ROI and if we can establish a benchmark and what the employee experience is and the employee engagement is, from the time you start with your company or your organization, that will help you to really kind of move forward. So, establishing that benchmark is really great. There's a number of softwares out there that can allow you to be able to get a score on employee engagement or employee experience, but you know, one of the tools I like to use sometimes is turnover rates. So, I'll take the, you know, the number of separations for example, the number of employees that have left over the average of employees and you know, times that by a hundred and you'll get a turnover rate or your investment in training.
Crystal:
So, you know, the total training investment divided by the number of people in the organization, and you'll get kind of a value there on if it's working and if it's not. So, those are, I mean there's tons of other metrics that you can use, but I would establish go, what is a benchmark and what metric are you really trying to improve? It's not all about employee experience because under employee experience is that human capital element, that turnover rate, the separation rate, the productivity rate, the performance rate, there's all the customer, the average sale that the customer is spending with you, maybe that is directly affected with the employee experience. So, you really want to get clear on which number, which metric we want to measure and then aligning that employee experience journey to the metric. My friend, I'm so sorry, I am running a little behind.
Clare:
No worries. No, no, I totally understand. I was just going to say it has just all crystallized in my mind, pardon the pun that, you know, kind of retention and loyalty is a subject that we focus on in customer experience. We can't do that much about that because people want to leave automatically, so will employees, but the return on attracting top, the best talent, and taking them through onboarding so they want to stay and they perform more highly, that is the ROI of it, isn't it?
Crystal:
It's a big circle, it's a big figure eight, right? You do, but you have to start with your team. And I always say you have to start with your leadership team because also one of the things that's expected is, you know, we expect that leaders should know it and leaders should just train their employees, but leaders don't even understand customer experience or employee experience design because often they're put in a leadership role through succession planning. It was the next step in their career because they've been with the company for 20 years, but they never maybe chose to be that leader to inspire and motivate people. They just knew their job really well, but they didn't know that people element of it. And that people element is, you know, 80% of a leader's job. And so, for to be able to ask them to implement and execute employee experience and customer experience, it's not fair because you're not even setting your leadership team up for success. So, really important for them to be able to know the language of employee experience, customer experience, just human capital and human design, right? So, until they understand that terminology and all the tools, we have such amazing tools in our toolboxes, but for them to even get a little bit of that insight, then they're able to really, you know, help transform their teams.
Clare:
I love it. Thank you so much, Crystal. I can't wait to see you in Niagara Falls in Canada this week because we're having our WiCX hangout together. Thank you so much. Thank you to everybody who listened along today as well. And Crystal, where can people find you if they want to find out more about you?
Crystal:
I'm all over social media, so you can find me on LinkedIn, Crystal D'Cunha, on Instagram, Crstld or gettheinsideview.com. You can find me everywhere. So, thank you so much for having me, Clare and I love this Women in CX community. All of you women are doing amazing things and it's such a joy to be a part of.
Clare:
Oh, thank you so much, Crystal. Well, you take care, I'll see you soon. Literally!
Clare:
Thanks for listening to the Women in CX podcast with me, Clare Muscutt. If you enjoyed the show, please drop us a like, subscribe and leave a review on whichever platform you're listening or watching on and visit womenincx.community to find out more about membership. Join us again after Christmas, as we’ll be taking a break from broadcasting to enjoy the festivities! Happy holidays and I’ll see you in 2023!
