Clare Muscutt talks with Diane Magers about applying psychology to CX & life's swimming pool moments.
Episode #206 Show Notes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Hey, Diane!
Diane Magers:
Hey, Clare. How are you?
Clare Muscutt – host:
I am awesome. How are you doing, today?
Diane Magers:
Same, same. Having a wonderful day, so far.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Whoop whoop! And whereabouts in the world are you joining me from today?
Diane Magers:
I am in Dallas, Texas.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Texas? Ooh! Okay. I heard on the news this morning that – there’s a big debate around the swing of the voting round there.
Diane Magers:
There is a huge amount going on here in this state, yeah. It’s a little crazy. I’m not a Texan – by ‘native Texan,’ I’m not, I didn’t grow up here – but boy, I tell you, it’s got quite a personality.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, yeah.
Diane Magers:
It’s got quite a personality, so yeah. Lots of independent, strong people. Lots of opinions, really. Great place to be. People really have a deep love for the country here, and a deep love for the outdoors, so it’s great, yeah.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Sounds fabulous.
Diane Magers:
Yeah.
Clare Muscutt – host:
So, just to kick off, Diane, you and I met during lockdown and we had a fantastic conversation, and I got to hear your absolutely fascinating backstory. So, for the listeners, could you tell them a bit about your journey from clinical psychology into marketing and CX, and what you learnt along the way?
Diane Magers:
Oh, my goodness! That’s a wide range of topics, but yeah, I’d love to share a little bit about where I started and how I got where I am, but also a little bit about how it impacted me. I think one of the things that I want as kind of a key takeaway here is, I learned so much about myself, and I think knowing yourself and understanding who you are, and having confidence in that, is an important thing. So, here you go. So, I started – I’ll go back all the way to high school, actually…
Clare Muscutt – host:
Go for it.
Diane Magers:
… I was an exchange student in high school. So, imagine me, 17 years old – this is quite a long time ago – my parents shipping me off halfway around the world to Australia as part of my senior year. For me, a little girl growing up in Kansas was quite a – I didn’t have any idea what I was in for. Like, I had no fathom of what was happening, and where I was going to go, what was going to happen. It was one of the most incredible experiences because I was able to get that view of, you know, you’re just a tiny speck in the world, but everybody’s got their place, and everybody can have an impact.
So, when I came back from that exchange student trip, I had to begin to do public speaking and talk about my experience. So, early on, I was forced to kind of go on stage and start to do some of these, and I realised that part of what I really loved to do was to teach people and help them further themselves, and so, that lightbulb moment. Really love that.
Okay, so, fast forward a little bit: I decided to go into…
Clare Muscutt – host:
Sorry, it just made me think. I was just imaging like a Dorothy moment in Australia…
Diane Magers:
A little bit.
Clare Muscutt – host:
… all wide-eyed, ‘We’re not in Kansas anymore, Toto.’
Diane Magers:
It was. You know, clicking my heels a few times when I was homesick didn’t work, but on the other hand, you know, it’s alright. So good, it was. So good.
Clare Muscutt – host:
So young to do all of that.
Diane Magers:
Yes, it was. If my parents were still alive, I would ask them, ‘What were you thinking?’ This is back before cell phones, where I’d have to telegram back and forth to home. Anyway, I’m dating myself.
So, when I came back, I decided, you know, I really enjoyed learning more about human and human behaviour; I’d always been interested in that. So, I got my degree in clinical psychology, and one of the things a lot of people don’t know about me is I specialised in death and dying, which people who know me kind of go, ‘That is kind of morbid. You’re so upbeat and you’re so energetic.’ And what I learned as I was going through psychology courses is that – I talked a lot to people who were older and did a lot of interviewing of people who were obviously terminally ill – and one of the things that I realised is that nobody ever said they wanted to spend more time at work. It was all about, ‘I wished I would have spent more time with my kids,’ or ‘I wish I really would have attended that one event that I was too busy to go to,’ or ‘I wish I would have reached out more to the people I really cared about.’
So, it was all about this love and connection for folks, and those important moments – in their careers, in their lives – that really meant a lot to them. And so, that reflection was really incredible for me. So, while it really wasn’t about death and dying, it was more about this end-of-life and the business of living in what you do, and the value that you give, and the value that you get.
So, part of the, I guess, the overarching theme behind that was – I really carried that through the rest of what I did. Well, the other part that you wanted to hear about was, ‘Okay, so, great. You went into clinical psychology. Why are you in CX, now?’
Clare Muscutt – host:
But I love that, though, the business of living. That really resonated with me. I just got little chills thinking about it. It wasn’t about death and dying; it was about the business of living.
Diane Magers:
Yeah. We think about ‘value creation’ as this new phrase, now, in customer experience…
Clare Muscutt – host:
My favourite.
Diane Magers:
Yes. And so, I think about that and saying, ‘What value am I creating today, not just for myself but the people around me?’
Clare Muscutt – host:
Oh, absolutely.
Diane Magers:
So, if we think about what that does with customers, it’s all about understanding, ‘What are those things?’ Giving back people time to spend with their loved ones, or providing more knowledge and engagement with them and really helping to build who they are.
Clare Muscutt – host:
With you all the way on that one. With you all the way.
Diane Magers:
Yep. Awesome. So, that turned into, ‘Well, why are you not in psychology anymore?’ So, I was also working with emotionally disturbed adolescents. These were tough kids who had been sold into prostitution by their parents, or one young girl had actually killed both of her parents because of all the abuse she’d gone through. So, really horrible situations, and I thought, ‘You know what? I really need a break from this really heavy piece.’ I was young; I was 23, 24.
And so, I left there, and I went to work for a friend of mine who started a company in the basement of his house. I did everything from chief cook to bottle-washer, right? Everything to grow this business. We sold it later to a bigger company, but I learned so much about how to build the business, and how to build the culture and how to – even the tactical things. It’s great. That’s wonderful.
So, then I went to work for a CEO of a division of a large corporation who – Clare, and people listening, you know those leaders who are just those icons that have it in their heart, and really love what they do, and they love being a part of something, that growth and that – every day, they come to work and they’re ready for that next adventure, and they’re trying to really move themselves and the organisation forward. Well, that was him. He had a huge influence on me. He said, ‘We’re going to build this business based on what the customers tell us, and we’re going to provide value to them.’ So, I was out talking with customers, doing surveys – paper surveys way back when – and we were bringing that information back and really building things around what the customer needed.
So, that led into the corporate company inviting me to come to be part of their transformation effort. So, back then, customer experience wasn’t a thing; it was kind of just in its infancy. When the CXPA started, when all of us were searching out each other and finding those people who are doing these crazy things like I’m doing. So, really loved that because it was helping this industry and this profession to really grow. Always for me, I was always seeking out, ‘Where can I find value and be part of something that’s bigger, that’s really having an impact in people’s lives?’ And my career has just kind of led me down that path, yeah.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I love it.
Diane Magers:
Yeah, that’s how I got from point A to point B.
Clare Muscutt – host:
There’s so much in there. I loved hearing of you having the dream leader. In CX, that is our ambition, isn’t it? Someone who connects with the reality of, ‘We’re doing this for customers. How do we find value for them? How do we listen to them?’ is the dream.
Diane Magers:
Yes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
So, it’s great that you got to see that first-hand, but also thinking about like the evolution of CX. So, in the UK, I was one of very few females that were, I guess, with profile in our industry, but I always was looking to the women from the US because it seemed to be predominantly strong female CX leaders that were the ones in the spotlight. So, are they all your friends? I’m intrigued.
Diane Magers:
Yeah. Actually, it is. We were just joking, we started a little ‘Wild Women of CX’ virtual happy hour. And it’s those women who – and you know what you should recognise in yourself, for those of you who are listening, is there is definitely a certain type of person who becomes a CX professional. It requires you to open your arms and your heart wide to everything that’s happening. It requires you to be a juggler of many, many pieces of knowledge and disciplines. You have to really know yourself in order to help other people in the organisation see where you’re headed. So, surrounding yourself with women like that – like you’re doing in these sessions – it’s incredible. We’re celebrating each other. We’re having really deep conversations about things that are happening in our careers. Some are veering off into other things; they’re trying to find other ways to grow, too. It’s been amazing, but it truly is part of how we create a ‘tribe’ around what we’re doing, and how we’re finding those people who are like us and pulling them in.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah.
Diane Magers:
So, that’s one thing I’d encourage everybody to do: just go find a tribe.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah. I think that’s the main reason we’re doing this podcast and creating the Women in CX community is trying to help those networks extend beyond who we know to be able to connect women together all over the world and have that experience.
I love ‘Wild Women of CX’. It sounds like a coven.
Diane Magers:
You know, we just started with having a conversation, ironically – I’ll share this. I hope the ladies who are listening, they’ll go, ‘Yeah, of course.’ It took us about three meetings before the whole team said, ‘Hey, you know what? We should do something. We should write a book, or we should do an…’ and it’s like, ‘You know, we were just getting together with this stuff, and it turned right into action.’ That is a mantra of women in CX, right? We are all about women of action. So, it’s turned into a half working, half being together-type meeting.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I think you’re totally right: we share these characteristics of empathy and openness – in connection, in communication – and action is a huge one, absolutely. Who’s in your crew, then? I’m intrigued.
Diane Magers:
Oh, so, Annette Franz, Nancy Port, Geri May, Roberta O’Keith. There’s people that you would recognise who do a lot of publishing and who – we call ourselves ‘Serial CXers’. We’ve all been in more than one organisation, so we’ve kind of tried different hats on in different places.
Clare Muscutt – host:
What a power list. Ah, I’m really happy for you that you’ve got such a cool crew.
Diane Magers:
Awesome. It’s awesome.
Clare Muscutt – host:
So, I’ve taken us a little bit off track, there…
Diane Magers:
Sorry.
Clare Muscutt – host:
It’s alright, it’s my fault. The next question I was going to ask you was about, when we had our first conversation, you talked to me about having had a ‘swimming pool’ moment in your life, that basically everything kind of changed. Could you tell the listeners a bit about what the swimming pool moment was, what it meant to you, and how it affected you going forward?
Diane Magers:
Oh, that’s a great – you guys can have a visual here, right? So, I was working for an organisation that was very – a logistics organisation – so very left-brain, talking about supply chain, and trucks, and all of that, which totally wasn’t my gig. But I loved the company, and I loved what we did, and building the customer engagement practice there was awesome because we were dealing with a lot of really great, great people; we had some wonderful people at that organisation.
And when I decided that I was going to leave, I’d been there quite some time, and I thought, ‘I really need my next chapter.’ And I was having a review with my boss at the time, and he said to me, he said, ‘You know, you get your work done, but you don’t stay in your lane. We’re trying to really get some things done here, and I’d really like for you to kind of focus on these things that we’ve assigned for you to do in the next year.’ And, you know, I kind of took it as this criticism of, well, I really wasn’t doing what I was supposed to do, but I got a great review, so it was like, ‘Huh, I’m really kind of curious…’
Clare Muscutt – host:
Confused.
Diane Magers:
… ‘about what happened there.’ Yeah. So, I decided at that point in time – several other things had happened – and I decided to give my notice, and so I quit about a week later, not just because of that but other things. I decided that I was going to take a little time, and my next-door neighbour had a pool, and so I asked if I could go over and just kind of hang out during the day because they were working. And so, I spent probably two or three weeks, just an hour or so every day, going out and just floating in that pool, and thinking about my career, and thinking about what I had learned about myself through my career. I mean, who gets a chance to do that? I highly encourage people to do that.
One of the things that really came out was – I was kind of replaying that conversation, as we all do in our head, we replay this a lot – and typically, I would have said it was the same old, ‘Okay, ingrain that in my head, that I need to focus.’ And something inside me kind of stirred and I said, ‘You know what? There are people and organisations out there who really want somebody who’s going to helicopter up and try to pull the pieces together.’
So, for me, it was this validation that we shouldn’t listen to everything, and when we do, we should process it and help ourselves understand what those messages really mean because sometimes, like this one, it was veiled in feedback but really was a way for me to open up what one of my strengths really was. So, now if you talk to anybody who knows me, they’ll be like, ‘Oh, yeah, she’s the connector. She brings everything together. She helicopters up. She’s looking for all the puzzle pieces that are missing.’ I think that’s a strength.
So, sometimes those things that people give you feedback on can make you stop, they really make you stop, and sometimes weigh you down a little bit. I just encourage everybody to just take those moments to turn it around and see how you can put that to a strength.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I’m just imaging, now, there’s probably a lot of women out there, because of Covid and corona, perhaps they do have the time to have these reflections because they might be out of work or looking for something else. It’s such an important point, being able to reflect on who you are, and what your strengths are, and going out there and finding that role. So, rather than just trying to fit in with what you’re given, if you have that chance to reflect, you’re so much better playing to your strengths, right, than ever trying to work your way or build yourself around developing your weaknesses…
Diane Magers:
I don’t know why we don’t take that time, Clare. I think that’s one thing for women, everybody I talk to who – if we take time out of our crazy lives, we always say, ‘Oh, my gosh. We should do this more often.’ Although that is, I call it a God thump, saying to you, ‘You need to spend more time thinking about who you are and the role that you play.’
Don’t think about the job; think about the role you want to play in other people’s lives and in the organisations that you’re in. That takes it out of, ‘It’s a job,’ or ‘It’s a career,’ or ‘It’s a position.’ It’s a role, and it’s got responsibilities that are yours and yours alone, and knowing yourself can really help you in achieving and addressing what your role is.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I get that. I get that. What I keep hearing from our conversation, now, and also when I first spoke to you is this kind of continuous sense of purpose, and the desire now to give back at your point in your career. That’s why you’re here on the podcast: you wanted to share your insights with the rest of the women in CX. Why’s it so important to you to keep giving back?
Diane Magers:
I think it goes back to the very first topic that we talked about because I think as you go through the scars in your life, and also the celebrations in your life, helping people understand how you got there, and… I guess it’s a little bit of, you know, your kids, you always tell them, ‘If you just knew what I knew at your age,’ but they don’t listen. So, it’s sharing with people.
There is a lot of wisdom in people who have been through a lot of things in their life. And sometimes, we think about the stories and we’re like, ‘Yeah, that’s great for her, but what about me?’ Well, it’s more about the what happened, but also the why it happened, and what do you do about it?
Part of that also is I think that in this profession because it’s so new, there’s not a lot of people who have been through four or five organisations, or who have really been able to see this profession in a much bigger picture, and so I think that’s part of just – one, it’s just who I am, if you ask anybody, but two, it’s building that little bit of a legacy with folks in their own careers and allowing them to achieve quicker, and be stronger, and know themselves better.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Love that. I love that. I’m going to ask you about being a CEO at the CXPA in a moment. But I think kind of reflecting on what you just said about the group of women that you grew up alongside in customer experience, the women I’d call the ‘great matriarchs’ of women in customer experience. What are your views on how CX has evolved and where we’re heading as a discipline?
Diane Magers:
Oh, goodness. You know what? I think we’re at this precipice of it is going to become a little bit business-as-usual. It’s no longer ‘why’, but it’s ‘How fast can we achieve these things in an organisation?’
So, I think that the discipline itself – while it’s gone through this morphing and kind of gone off-track a little bit here and there – I think the basis of that, and the heart of what we do, is becoming part of where organisations are headed. We see global shifts and this being more purposeful and sustainable as an organisation. Well, all along that’s what we as CX professionals have been telling our companies and our brands: that we really have to think about who we are as a brand, kind of know yourself – turn that lens right back on the company – know yourself, what you provide to humankind and to the world, and not to be Pollyannish about it, but that’s really where things are going to head as we get through the other side of this pandemic and we really have a different view on life, like we all have. We’ve all changed internally, I think, about how we think about what’s valuable to us and our families, and what brands will be alongside of us as we make this transition out. And even as technology and things continue to change so drastically, it’s who a brand is. And that’s really our role is to help hold up that mirror and help a brand discover, ‘This is who you’re seen as, and this is how we’re interacting, and this is the value we’re providing, or not, to people.’
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, totally with you. That kind of values and value-driven future of CX, where one hand, we’ve got technology accelerating off in one direction, and then this shift in what’s happened during the pandemic getting us to be far more human and connected. We just have to try and marry that back up together, right? I’ve talked about it before on this podcast that technology is advancing faster than CX as a discipline, but the opportunities for everyone working in customer experience to help to shape the next generation or next evolution of CX are huge because it feels like there’s more unchartered territory, now, to conquer with, as you say, the brand perspective and bringing value and values to life through the experience. I think it’s a really exciting prospect…
Diane Magers:
You’re so right. I think you bring something up that I’ve always – when I meet CX professionals, they’re usually so well-rounded, and they see the bigger picture, and I think we’re going to have to get a little more specific about growing our skills in technology, and data, and use of that information, and how that does translate into it because in a lot of organisations, there’s nobody who’s really crossing that left-brain/right-brain. And I think for us to be able to take all the technology in this bigger ecosystem we’re in today to really make things happen, we’re going to have get more knowledgeable about how to do that, not just digital, but more just tech.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Tech. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Diane Magers:
It’s coming fast.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, I started interviewing tech company CEOs and CX VPs from technology companies as a part-time job, and I’m learning so much just by spending time with them. And everyone’s desire is to marry the human and technology together, but like you say, the capacity and capability for people who have got the experience to think that way – given it’s so new, you know, like 30 years of CX – and all these technologies that have literally appeared overnight, but I find that exciting.
Diane Magers:
Oh, I do too. I think one of the things just – one of the key takeaways, here, is I made really close friends with three people in the big organisations I worked in: an IT person or a data person…
Clare Muscutt – host:
You need them. They’re friends.
Diane Magers:
Literally.
Clare Muscutt – host:
And a finance person!
Diane Magers:
CFO, right? CFO, HR, and IT. When I talked – it happened to be a woman because I thought, you know, she’s going to understand a little bit more. Her name was Renee, and she and I really kind of made a pact. We talked a lot about, ‘I want to learn more about this,’ and she wanted to learn more about customer experience. And we said, ‘We really have to walk down the aisle together and show a united front with the organisation.’
And so, the ability for us to really make those internal commitments to each other and what we’re trying to do, I think it’s important. It’s one of the things that I learned is you’ve got to be really upfront about, ‘What are we both trying to achieve, and how can we help each other to do that?’ And the same thing with the CFO, he was just really enamoured with the fact that he could begin to tie these intangibles – he always thought – to the financials and make it stronger for stakeholder and shareholder sharing.
So, that was a give and a take where I could help build a business case but he could also take that goodwill line on the P&L chart and really begin to talk about what we were doing from a broader scale.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah.
Diane Magers:
It’s always a give and take.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah. I think learning those languages that aren’t, perhaps, how CXers were brought up to be really pragmatic and able to talk about financials and KPIs. Again, that’s the next big competency that we’ve got to build, right? We’ve managed to convince everybody that customers are important, and most businesses would now know what customer experience is – that’s kind of where we were a couple of years ago, right? Now, how do we continue those conversations in languages that resonate with the business to take it beyond that? It’s so important.
Diane Magers:
Yeah, we’ve kind of shot ourselves in the foot a little bit, and I’m just going to be open about it. Everybody who knows me knows I’m a little opinionated, but…
Clare Muscutt – host:
Go for it.
Diane Magers:
… I think we’ve kind of over-rotated on metrics. We talk about customer satisfaction, we talk about Net Promoter Score, and they have a place, but one of the things we’ve done a disservice on is when we’re talking about that, our executives are talking about revenue and cost.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yes.
Diane Magers:
And so, if we’re not talking their language, then they’re not going to be listening, right? ‘It’s good to know. It’s nice to have. It’s great that customers are happy.’ But when we start to talk about the fact that that experience drove revenue, it drove cost, and quantify that, they go, ‘Oh! Yeah.’
Clare Muscutt – host:
‘Now I get it.’ Yeah.
Diane Magers:
‘Oh, hey! Let’s do more or less of whatever it is we’re doing.’
So, I think we as professionals have to talk – I love that, your ‘Learn that language.’ That’s one of the languages. And ironically, at the same company I talked about because they were so supply chain logistics-driven, if you weren’t able to tell the business case, like, ‘Take your pack and go home,’ right?
So, I had to learn that in order to pitch, I guess, against, ‘I want to do this project. I’ve got to be able to talk just like the guy in operations does.’ So, it came a fast and hard lesson early, but one that’s really served me well as we’ve gone through other organisations and helped them.
Clare Muscutt – host:
And me, too. Like, I spent five years in retail, which is hands-down the most commercial, operational businesses to be around. And I’d arrived from hospitality where service and customer experience was part of what we did, whereas in supermarket retailing, it was more about product and shifting it; putting the beans on the shelves. But for customers, with like digital and online grocery deliveries, it was getting more complicated. But that’s where I learnt to speak those languages because no one cared what I had to say if it wasn’t translated in the way that they needed to hear it. So, yeah, I’m with you on that. Which, I guess, leads me into my final question, really, about you spent time as the CEO of the CXPA. So, what are your top pieces of advice for CX professionals building their skills – we’ve talked about a lot of it, I guess, so far – but now into the future, with everything that’s changed, what would your top takeaways be?
Diane Magers:
Oh, my! Gosh, I think talking to hundreds if not thousands of practitioners, to be able to boil that down is – there are so many things, as you know, in our profession. I think we’ve talked about them and maybe it’s making sure that that hits home…
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yep, summaries.
Diane Magers:
Yeah.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I get it.
Diane Magers:
Learning every part of the organisation, so even things that you’re not comfortable with like finance or IT; our role is to be able to marry those up. So, I think learning about those other organisations and what they do, speaking their language. I think it’s this persistence for the organisational growth – and I don’t mean the growth from a finance standpoint – I mean internal growth: turning on those lightbulbs for everybody in the organisation, where as I always say I go in and ruin people, to get them to think in a different way about everything that we do as an organisation, and how it impacts the employee sitting next to you as well as the customer externally.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Excuse me! Carry on.
Diane Magers:
Bless you! Bless you!
Clare Muscutt – host:
Hope it’s not corona.
Diane Magers:
And then, don’t go it alone. I think a lot of times – I should start a therapy for CX people, recovering or new – because a lot of times, when they call, it seems like everybody’s on an island; they think, ‘You know, I’m doing this. I’m pushing the rock uphill. I’m learning as I go. It’s really tough.’ Don’t go it alone. There are people out there who, if they’ve been around a long time, great, they can give you all kinds of sage advice, but also other people who are new to it. You’re all coming at it from a different bent, and everybody has their strengths. And if we come together as a village – I often say, ‘You’re not crazy, and you’re not alone,’ there’s other people there, and it does take a village to raise customer experience, by the way – so find that village. Reach out to other practitioners. I can tell you every single person that I’ve ever met in CX is more than happy to talk about whatever they did that worked because they know repeating it – as my floating in the pool is – repeating it and talking about it helps you to process.
I’ll never forget I had a mentee that – I was probably still at my first role in CX, and they assigned somebody to mentee, one of the high potentials in the organisation – and what was most ironic is that person began to ask me, ‘Well, how did you develop this?’ or ‘What did you think about this?’ or ‘How did you get there?’ And it’s like, ‘Oh, I kind of made that up as I went.’ I really hadn’t been purposeful about it, you know? Back then, it was like, ‘I’m going to try these things on.’ But I think that’s what really was part of being able to have conversations and mentor is you have to be specific when somebody says, ‘How did you do this?’ or ‘Why did you do this?’ That retrospection of going back and saying, ‘Yeah, this is what we did. This is why. And hey, that worked, but you know what? That didn’t.’ And until we have a chance to really go back and have a retrospection, we don’t gain those valuable pieces of information and knowledge about what we’re doing and why. Yeah.
Clare Muscutt – host:
That’s brilliant. So, it’s been a wonderful talking to you today.
Diane Magers:
You too, Clare.
Clare Muscutt – host:
You’re such a super inspiring woman in CX. From me and from all the listeners, thanks so much for coming to keep giving back and sharing so many great lessons with the community on this podcast.
Diane Magers:
My pleasure. Thank you so much. And everybody out there, be yourself. Learn about yourself. Grow. Grow. That’s what it’s all about.
Clare Muscutt – host:
You heard it, ladies. Thanks to everyone who listened along today. So, that’s it from us, and take care! See you, Diane.
Diane Magers:
Bye.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Bye!