Doing Life on Her Own Terms: Freya Finnerty on IVF, Identity and Agile CX
Episode #807 Show Notes:
Clare
We’re back with another episode of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast! A series dedicated to real-talk conversations between women in customer experience and technology. For Series 8, we’re raising the bar—pushing boundaries, sparking bold ideas, and challenging the CX status quo. Expect fresh perspectives, fearless discussions, and a celebration of women driving change in our industry. I’ll be your host, Clare Muscutt, and in today’s episode, I’ll be talking to a seriously inspiring lady from the UK about solo motherhood, IVF, and how Agile shaped her journey through it all.
A Scrum Master and Agile Capability Lead with a wealth of experience guiding tech teams across Retail, FMCG, Oil & Gas, and Media, she’s goal-oriented, passionate about human-centred outcomes and known for connecting people to solve problems and drive progress creatively. Outside of work, she’s a classically trained actor and Zumba instructor, bringing energy, empathy, and authenticity to everything she does.
Allow me to introduce you to today’s inspiring guest, Freya Finnerty!
Clare
Hi Freya! Welcome to the Inspiring Women in CX podcast. Wonderful to have you here.
Freya
Hey Clare! It's great to be here. It's great to be here.
Clare
Yeah, finally! Thank you so much to everybody who's tuned in to listen or watch wherever you are. So I think this conversation probably needs a little bit of context. And that is that Freya and I have known each other for a very long time because we originally worked together at Sainsbury's. However, Freya and I reconnected when, if any of you follow me on social media, remember when I posted about my decision – on Mother's Day, was the post – to become a solo mother by choice. And I opened up about the fact that I was about to embark upon my own IVF journey, and Freya very kindly reached out in the DMs. I was so overwhelmed by how many people reached out to me at that time with their own experiences, their own different stages of the journeys that they've been on, people thinking about it, people who'd successfully conceived, people who had tried and failed. And in that post, I said, “I think it's really important that we remove the stigma around IVF and solo motherhood”, because it was so apparent to me that people didn't comment about that. They had to come to the DMs to try to talk about it.
So I said at the time, we need to make a podcast. And when Freya reached out to me, it meant that we had a conversation. Freya told me about her previous journey of doing the first stage, and Freya then supported me whilst I did the treatment, which is a lot of medication, a lot of scans and having your eggs retrieved. And mine was a very... classed as a very successful round that I had at the age of 43: 30 follicles that produced 20 eggs that became 15 embryos. And I was very, very excited at that, like “Wow, amazing, my body can do it at 43!” But then, once they went to PGTA testing, which is genetic testing to make sure all the DNA is in the right place, I only ended up with one embryo that's actually genetically viable. And that embryo is now sitting in a freezer. But Freya took the next step in her journey…
Freya
I did.
Clare
…which was to get pregnant, and then I supported you behind the scenes in your journey to now having beautiful baby Fox. So I suppose that's kind of set up for this conversation. And I think, you know, we've become firm friends since. Freya has joined the Women in CX community as well. And yeah, being able to kind of cross these two tracks, suppose, of Agile, CX or three tracks and IVF and solo motherhood. I hope we can be really helpful to anyone out there who's considering any of those things within their own personal journeys.
So if we think about the beginning, I suppose, for you, Freya, would you like to share a little bit more about your decision to pursue solo motherhood through IVF, but also your career journey and kind of how these two things have intertwined together? Maybe start with career and then we can talk about the decision to go for it with IVF, because I know your story is quite different to mine.
Freya
Yeah, okay, cool. So I'll start, gosh, with the career. And I guess, probably my journey to motherhood, my career has been quite eventful. I suppose even my transition to working in technology hasn't been conventional either. I started my career working as a designer for a global marketing insights company called Added Value. I was 16 at the time, and I really loved art and drama, and my art teacher got me some work experience there over the summer. I joined as an assistant in their design team, and it was really cool. I got to work with some awesome brands. I used to work there during my school holidays. And then they offered me a full-time job as a mood board designer. So I was basically…you know, it's quite cool creating concept boards.
Clare
Yeah!
Freya
Or I was going out shopping and creating themed rooms to bring the look and feel of a brand to life. So it was a great place to work. If you love shopping, what a great job! I actually hate shopping, as you know, Clare.
Clare
It's the perfect job for me to be honest. I know shopping's not your bag.
Freya
But I think I had had enough of shopping then. I still had this theater bug niggling at me. And so the stage was calling. So I actually left the job after a year, and I went to drama school. That was my first big shift. And I suppose this was pivotal for me because I decided what I do at that point is keep one foot in the world of work and one in the world of acting. If you're anyone who's done acting, it's pretty unpredictable. And I suppose at that time, I hadn't really thought about being a Mum. I was quite young, and I was really pursuing – I really wanted to do acting. That was my thing.
But I was lucky enough to land a job working in customer experience for Ubisoft, which is a computer games publisher. And again, it was a bit of a mix of a job. I was responding to customer letters, and I was managing our social pages, which I think around 2002, you know, it's quite limited. And it's kind of crazy to think that you'd have one person managing these now. And the other part of my role was arranging large-scale tours of these gaming buses and taking them to music festivals. I remember going around Reading Festival…and when I got back to the office, I had to manually enter all the data that we captured on these cards. And it was never-ending. But I suppose, again, it was just a sort of…times were really different then.
Clare
Yeah.
Freya
And at this point, you know, I had a passion for design. I'm sort of getting into creating experiences in the theatre, but also, I suppose, the customers and digital. So I moved into PR and I went to work for Warner Bros., promoting a video game called Lego Batman, which was super fun. But again, it's a bit…of a random journey.
Clare
Squiggly!
Freya
But again, behind all of this was me trying to break into acting. And I was lucky enough to go to Russia and work with the Moscow Arts Theatre and the Royal Shakespeare Company, but I was also…I was attending quite a lot of auditions in the week as well. At this point, I was very used to working with change, you know, embracing unpredictable situations and a lot of rejection. So this set me up perfectly for working in tech at Sainsbury's, where we met Clare and I started out in the DX team – the Digital Experience team – and I kind of got headhunted to this role.
I didn’t really know what it was, but they were setting up a new team and they wanted an Assistant to support the Director. But I had heard that at Sainsbury's, they had the role of a Scrum Master. And I really liked the sound of that role, it kind of tied together what I was doing in the theatre and things like that. So I thought I'd just give it a go. And maybe I could shadow and eventually become a Scrum Master, which I did.
Clare
Yay!
Freya
And I suppose at this point, you know, I have to say that the acting dream that I was pursuing, I was kind of losing my grasp of that a bit, and I didn't mind so much because I've actually found a job that I really liked. And it was at this point where I started thinking of becoming a Mum, and I started to think about things like maternity packages and family-friendly policies, and it seemed like a good place to be. But unfortunately, after eight years, that role came to an end, and I thought I had served my dream of being a Mum.
Clare
Mmm.
Freya
And so from this point onwards, all my career choices were based on how I could become a mother. Did they offer maternity pay and support? Was the salary high enough? Because, as you know, Clare, IVF is not cheap.
Clare
Expensive, yeah.
Freya
Yeah. And did they have good family policies? And I have to say, I did have to walk away from some really amazing jobs and some big companies because they didn't actually meet this criteria. I think at that point I was realising that as a woman working in tech, you do have to make some big decisions if you do want to become a mum, especially on your own. But I suppose the other part of your question, the whole solo parenting thing…that was never on my agenda
Clare
No.
Freya
I suppose to be completely transparent, I was in a long-term relationship. I was married. I had two stepsons, and we were together for over 13 years. And I suppose I put my thoughts of having a baby on hold because I was chasing the dream of acting, and I thought one day I'd either achieve it or I'd just stop chasing. But I was already being a Mum, I was a Step-Mum, and that was a wonderful experience. And as a couple, we decided that we'd wait for the boys to be a bit older and then I would try for a baby. But when that time came, we decided to separate.
So, here we are, solo parenting. I had to make a choice, either be bold and give it a go on my own or just let it be. And I suppose it wasn't just a decision that I took lightly. It was a lot of soul searching. It was also during COVID. It wasn't easy. And I think when you're approaching, at the time I was approaching 40, I was thinking, do I wait and meet somebody else? Do I just meet someone and say, “Hey, do we have a baby?”At that age, I was already thinking about my fertility and my egg quality. So I thought, do you know what, the one thing I hate is having regrets. And I knew that this was one thing I'd regret. So I just went for it. That is a long story short of how I got to this point. That's a rather long route round.
Clare
Yeah. Wow. So much of that resonates with me. I think, particularly that kind of…putting it off. I first went to investigate my status in terms of fertility at 38. I'd been single for eight years. I was thinking, ‘I think I want children in the future’, but I was very conscious of the well-known fact, – which I found out since it isn't really that much of a fact – that after 35 your fertility drops off a cliff. I remember going to the first appointment, having the blood tests and the scans and everything and being quite pleased that they said your AMH level, which is the hormone level that is for your egg reserve, was high for my age. And then I kept thinking I'm going to meet somebody. So I'll wait.
And at the time, I was thinking that it's going to be a heterosexual relationship with a man – if I wanted to have a baby, if I did too much along the IVF route in terms of creating embryos, they might not want that. I can't believe I was thinking that. And then I kept going back basically every year, and I'd been told that, because at 38, your egg quality is already kind of not so great, I can have a good amount of them, but they might not be great quality. The egg freezing wasn't an option. It would have to be embryos because the likelihood of the eggs surviving freezing, thawing, fertilisation at an older age – your geriatric, basically, after 35. It was going to be a low chance.
I kept going back every year, and it was when my personal hormones did start to show that drop that there was a definite change that I was like, “It's now or never and I'm not going to put my life on hold and m potential choices on hold in the hope that I'm going to meet somebody else that wants to do that with me”. But I really wish I hadn't put it off for so long. And if I could go back and tell my younger self something – I get asked this question all the time when I do media interviews, and they think I'm going to say something about my career – but it is honestly, girls, freeze your eggs as soon as you can. Because the way that your career might take off, I know the reason I hadn't pursued any of that relationship and family aspect was because I was so focused on my career. And I wish I could have been in this position now at 43 with 25-year-old eggs that I could have many more options around. That really resonated with me. But one thing I think you didn't quite make so clear in your story though, is that you were married to a woman. So that's a different scenario, isn't it?
Freya
Yeah.
Clare
That's the only option, I suppose, for conceiving babies when you're in a same-sex relationship. Can you tell us a little bit more about your journey, I suppose, as a gay woman going through IVF and what that was like for you emotionally, practically, and from a societal point of view?
Freya
Yeah, totally, you're right. Unfortunately, science isn't advanced yet. I think IVF for a woman, gay or straight, is complex. And it's a really emotional journey. I can only speak from my own experience. But as a gay woman, it is hard. Financially, it's hard because there's no funding. So you've got to be prepared for that.
Clare
Same for a single woman.
Freya
It's not just…IVF is all the costs around it as well – the tests and medication, the additional procedures that you didn't even know that you needed to have. And then it's also making sure that you're financially stable enough to be able to fund additional rounds and, of course, take time off work when the baby arrives. There's no second salary, again, that’s not just being a gay woman, that's doing it as a woman on your own. But that's a real thing…I know I've had to make sure that I've got a second stream of income in case I lose my job. As you know, working in tech or CX is really unpredictable, and I need to ensure that I've always got a stream of income should I lose my job. So I retrained as a fitness instructor, and I've got something to fall back on should I lose my job. That does keep you awake at night, thinking about finances.
And then you've got big questions like, how are you going to do this? As in, where would you get the sperm? Will it be someone you know? I thought about asking some friends, but then you're always connected. Could you do co-parenting with someone? How would that be? Will you use a non-clinic-based donor site? Something that's a bit more unofficial, or will it be a sperm bank? But obviously, there are lots of costs associated with that. Would it be in the UK? Would it be overseas? How do you choose the sperm? What characteristics are you going to pick? And then you've got to think about all the genetic strains that you need to be aware of. Are there any conditions that you might carry or that they might carry?
Oh my gosh, the whole thing is just a minefield,isn't it? I know we've spoken about it. It's pretty intense. And then I guess, you've actually got doing the IVF bit. That's crazy. You've got all the injections in the stomach, the pills and your hormones are changing, being poached and prodded and having things shoved up all the time. It's so emotional. And you and I were talking at the time, I remember when I was…I was four weeks pregnant, and I went to the loo, and it was just filled with blood, and I thought I'd miscarried, and I was so devastated.
Clare
I remember.
Freya
And I don't think I've ever cried so much. You're constantly in this betwixt, in-between state of a dream coming true, and then it just falling away at the top of the hat. And I just didn't know that women do have periods during pregnancy. I genuinely didn't know that. And I think the whole thing is just like this. It's a roller coaster.
But I suppose, again, socially, not just as a gay woman, but there are other things to think about. Am I being selfish by bringing a child into the world on my own and being over 40? People have an opinion on that. Is it fair for a child not to know their biological father? How will they feel when they're older? And then you have those opinions of some who think that a child needs to, I suppose, have a father and that having a gay Mum or a gay parent is damaging. And that's real people, I've heard people say that, I've had people say it to me indirectly, and those are hard scenarios to be in, and big questions, and this is all before it's all started. And then when you're on the journey, you're asked, ‘Where is the father?’ on every form, appointment, people in general. You know, it's all kind of geared up mainly for heterosexual couples, really.
But, it has been joyful. I don't want to…it's not all doom and gloom. And the joy I found, surprisingly, is in the community of gay families, but also single women who I've connected with, who've been on the same journey, and to see them now with their children, who are happy and thriving. And I think that's what's really important. So it's…I'm not going to gloss over it. It is bloody hard being a single woman, being a gay woman. But, you know, if you really want something, just go for it, and you've just got to be grounded in your beliefs and your values.
Clare
Yeah, I love that. You're doing such an amazing job. I was so impressed. So proud of you. I was just thinking about the bits that resonated for me. So yeah, financially, it's very expensive. And it is unfair that solo and same sex couples aren't given the same access to fertility treatments on the NHS. We all pay the same national insurance. I think there are a few places now, with specific postcodes, where they are supporting queer families or gay families and single women. But the single women have to have had a really serious complication, medically, to qualify for that.
Then, yeah, I said IVF is the only option, but it's not, it? In vitro fertilisation is IVF, and that means the removal of the egg, which they call the test tube – but it's actually a petri dish – and the actual conception takes place outside of the body, isn't it? But there is also artificial insemination or... let's start giggling now. So many other ways to do it.
Freya
Yeah, there are so many other ways, isn't it?
Clare
But in my experience, I remember going to choose the donor... I was actually with my mum. Me and my mum were shopping basically for a donor on London Sperm Bank and getting to choose the genetics, the characteristics of your future child. In one way, it was really nice to have my Mum with me to do that. But at the same time, what a big decision! What an absolutely big and crazy decision to have to make. And the emotional turmoil, I suppose, is all those questions. I think, especially with how the world is turning right now, that my biggest question is still...is the world going to be a safe place, particularly for women, in the next few years?
And then the physical side of it, I wasn't prepared for how physically hard it was going to be. You mentioned the injections, but for me, it was the hormonal impact because I have PMDD anyway, I struggle with my hormones in the luteal phase. I go completely…I'm not the same person for about a week and a half.
Freya
Yeah.
Clare
And when you have IVF, they hyperstimulate your ovaries to produce multiple follicles. And on a normal cycle, you only have one that matures and the whole hormone – I know you know this, but for our audience – the whole hormone cycle is about this single egg being released, and it kick-starts a chain of everything else. And the luteal phase with one egg is essentially that the follicle recedes in response to the hormones that it produces. But then, when I had 30 eggs collected, 30 follicular eruptions, the amount of hormones that were produced as a result of that for someone with PMDD. I didn't feel like myself for three months afterwards. Not to mention the kind of physical challenges. I gained 10 kilos during treatment. I was in a lot of pain. I was very borderline in terms of ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome, OHSS, which can be very dangerous. And it took me months to feel like myself again after that treatment.
Freya
You just described that, I think you and I were trying to figure it out as we were going along. But we only got this information when we were in the process. And I think that's what I find so surprising, that there's not more information that's widely available or talks about IVF and actually what you will go through emotionally, and it being a bit more normalised because even where I work, there are so many people that have gone through this journey. I meet people and they've gone through that journey, I go, “how did I not know about this?” Why is it not discussed more or supported more? It's really strange.
Clare
Yeah, but also I think the customer journey of the clinics and the customer experience, they haven't thought about that healthcare journey, and it feels very, very sales-oriented. And I felt very pushed to get upsold to add-ons, and a real lack of transparency, even in the communication and form filling.
Freya
Yeah.
Clare
I definitely think you and I could take apart that system and put it back together far better with the interests of women at the heart of it.
Freya
Yeah. I remember telling you, because when I was going in to have my implantation, it's a big day for me, right? I've paid a lot of money for it. And I was so surprised that when I got to reception, they were like, “OK, so if you've got your customer number, that's what you're going to be identified with today.” So instead of calling me by my name, I was being called a number.
Clare
Let's have a one, two, three, four. It's gross, isn't it?
Freya
I was just like, “You what?” And you just had a little curtain around you. is surprising. But hey, there we are.
Clare
Yeah, but such a highly emotional, massive financial investment, you'd think that more of these clinics would be more focused on women, a female-centred experience and designing for that. So…I'm going to take a skip back into the career side. Before I ask you the next question, I'm going to ask you what is Agile and what is Scrum? Just in case anyone listening doesn't know what that means.
Freya
Yeah. OK, so I suppose Agile is a methodology of how many organisations approach their way of working. You may be used to more traditional, very planned ways of working, called Waterfall. But within Agile, we're trying to equip organisations to be prepared for change, really. And I suppose when we're working in technology, a lot of the time we are working in the unknown. So teams tend to use Agile as an approach to try and prepare teams to cope with those situations. And Scrum is just one of those frameworks that you can use that sit under the Agile umbrella. It's got loads of principles and values that people can follow. So it's kind of a mindset shift as well as a practical way of working.
Clare
And what does a Scrum Master do?
Freya
Yeah, so Scrum, as I said, is one of the frameworks you can use to enable agility in your organisation. And I suppose the Scrum Master's role is to work with the teams and the organisation to say, “Hey, we've got a new way of working. Here are the rules, here are the guidelines. I'm going to coach you and show you how they are, but you go and play, you go and figure it out. I'm not telling you how to code. I'm not telling you what the answers are. I'm just going to keep reminding you of how to play in this new way so that you can achieve that.”
You're basically working with change, you're trying to shift an organisation, how they think, how they approach it. It's not just…you know, most of the time you're working with a very large system, so it's important to have this Scrum Master. I think people sometimes misunderstand the role because they believe they are just there to babysit and facilitate with wanting or not. You're working with the C-suite, you're working with leaders who are having to shift how they approach from maybe being more hierarchical in their approach to management and really shift the whole organisation. So it's an interesting role, yes. And there are lots of parallels, I think, with this crazy world of IVF.
Clare
That was going to be my next question. I was just wondering did any of the skills or principles that you mentioned help you manage the uncertainty or decision-making demands around IVF? Would you say that's helped you in any way?
Freya
Yeah…my role as a coach is essentially helping organisations to prepare for, expect and respond to change and get the teams to sort of practice new skills, adapt and be able to respond when they need to. Essentially, that is what IVF is. It's full of unknowns and twists, and who you are as a woman at the beginning will not be who you are at the end. You will have to switch and pivot and try new tactics just to get yourself through the journey and keep moving forward. And in Agile, we tend not to plan too far ahead. And what I mean by that is, yeah, we know what is six months ahead, but we only plan in real depth and detail and focus on the first month. And I suppose the reason behind that is that things change. Whereas in business, the reality is that if you plan too far ahead, you're just wasting time and money.
But in the IVF context, it's the energy and courage that I found that helped me just to focus on each stage at a time. E.g. these next four weeks are about me staying fit and calm while I have my egg collection. But you have to take it step by step. These next four weeks, I'm just going to focus on my diet, and I need to stay close to home because I've got loads of injections and medications. Or like I was saying to you, when I had to do my pregnancy test, it was a big day. I don't really want to take too much responsibility at work in case I get the answer I don't want. So you get the gist, you have to break it down. And if you think about the whole journey of IVF all at once, it's just too much, especially on your own, if you've got no one to sound board with.
And like we've shared, the times where I would think too far ahead and worry, the anxiety can just be crippling. And decision fatigue as well, it is really real here because you're constantly having to make big decisions. I suppose another one as well – in Agile, we encourage transparency and visualisation of work in progress. That's to make sure that everyone's on the same page and we all know where we're at. And when we're working in tech, everything is complex. And a lot of the time, non-tech people don't understand everything. So IVF is complicated. Every letter, every form, appointment with consultants, it's full of scientific jargon, and they just expect you to know what they're banging on about. And you just don't most of the time. Also, when you're doing it solo, you're so emotionally invested, it's really easy just to forget what you're being told. So I would ask them to draw it out, you know, what are you saying? So I got some clarity around it. But also that when I went home, I could go back and look at it and really try and absorb it.
Clare
You agile coached your doctors?
Freya
Yeah, pretty much. But it was there, I remember like saying to you, “What the hell does that even mean?” I was just like… having to Google everything…even to do with the female anatomy. I was like, “I didn't know that was that.” You think that would be a specialist topic. But there are lots of things that…it's very complex.
Clare
Yeah, I remember. And now little Fox is here, the gorgeous little bundle of joy that he is. How are you adjusting to that? Because you said being flexible and Agile in dealing with change and having to pivot, and…as new situations or circumstances crop up. So it's like the first few stages of baby development…right? And are you four months in now?
Freya
Yeah.
Clare
Is it four months?
Freya
Yeah, it's four months now.
Clare
Four months! That's so amazing. Is there anything that particularly surprised you?
Freya
Gosh…it's gone so quickly. But I think for me, what's surprising…is just how amazing the female body is. That you've gone through this whole physical thing – I had a C-section – and then you've got this life that you're…I've got this little boy that I'm trying to bring up, and I'm trying to muddle through as I'm going along. But I'm doing it. And your body enables you to do that. I think I'm just blown away at all the other mothers that I've met that are on a similar journey. That's what surprised me so far. And I think…obviously, you know, I'm someone that loves a plan, just being able to let go of that and just trying to be more in the moment. I think it's been really magical.
Clare
Well, you're certainly glowing! I love all the little pictures that you've been sending me, and all these little fox outfits and his fox-themed bedroom and his fox-themed books. It's so cute!
Freya
Yeah, he's got a lot of foxes…but the thing is in the storybooks, the fox is always the baddie! I'm trying to find some pro-fox things so that they're not all like…I think that the animals in farming are weird.
Clare
Fantastic Mr. Fox, Roald Dahl. Think he was the main character, wasn't he?
Freya
Yeah! Think the fox was a good, positive character there. I think I need to dig that out for him.
Clare
Fox is giving main character energy. If anybody else has any idea of books where foxes are the main characters – and good – you have to let Freya know. In terms of Agile, we talk a lot about sprints, retros, prioritising the backlog and the Agile principles that you coach businesses in and particularly through tech. Are there any that are showing up particularly in your approaches to raising your newborn now?
Freya
Yeah, good question. And so I suppose, yeah, if we look at the Agile manifesto, there are probably two that stand out for me. So we've got responding to change over following a plan. I suppose for me, I love a plan. As you know, I usually plan out my day every morning, and I want to achieve this. Obviously, with a newborn baby, you don't know what they'll want or need that day. And just, I suppose, just letting go of that and just trying not to…
I suffer a bit from being a perfectionist as well and wanting to do everything right. You read all these books saying, “Well, they should be doing this, you should be doing that.” And it's just like, you know what, I'm just not going to let go of that plan today. He looks like he's having fun with his playing atlas. Just go with that. And I think it's just…I suppose letting go of being too restrictive with a plan and just seeing where each day takes you. So that's one of them.
Another one from the manifesto is customer collaboration over contract negotiations. So here the customer is Fox, and so I suppose it's just..how's he feeling? Is he happy? I'm getting my feedback from him, and I suppose it's just reminding me to be in the moment, and I think that's quite special, really, so you know there is no right or wrong.
Clare
Does he fill out a little survey for you?
Freya
I'll have to get him to. Well, he doesn't need to fill out a survey; he either cries or he laughs, so yeah, it's pretty clear how he's feeling.
Clare
I'm kidding. Yeah, easy to read emotion in his customer journey. It's so cute. And would you say that going through IVF and having Fox and now becoming a solo parent has changed the way you perceive your identity either as a woman, as a parent or as a professional in the business world?
Freya
It's a big question there. So impermanence – I don't know if you've heard of that – but it's a word that I love, and it's basically the state of not lasting forever or not lasting for a long time. I suppose in life, whether it be a career, hobbies, a relationship, your role as a partner, a wife or a mother, they will at some point shift, and to be able to find acceptance and courage with that ideal. I think it's that ideal that's really grounded me in this journey. And it has reshaped my sense of identity. I've found that really, really powerful.
I also think as a woman, a mother and a leader, believing in the art of the possible, that's a strength. I can wholeheartedly say that I practice that. And it's this mindset. It will always drive change and growth as a mother, but also in the world of business. I take some confidence in that. But also, just going through this whole process. I think just talking to you now, just thinking, ‘My gosh, what a journey.” I can say that I know myself better. I've gone through some really dark times, and I've found ways to get through them and keep the end goal in mind.
In those early weeks when Fox arrived and I was doing the feeds, the night feeds completely alone, you know, just sitting in the dark. And I'm just staring in total awe at this little boy that's now here. And then, I just think back to all those times that I've wished and I dreamed and I prayed for that exact moment. It's pretty amazing. And I just think, I am bloody resilient. And I'm surprised at that. So, yeah, that's kind of how it shaped me, really, or who I am now, because I am different from who I was at the beginning to who I am now.
Clare
It's amazing. So, my final question for any other women out there, especially those that are either gay or solo, work in CX or tech and are considering IVF, what's one thing you wish someone had told you before you started your journey?
Freya
Okay, well, you'd already touched upon it at the very beginning. And I think it's…don't wait to get your fertility checked. I think it's something that we always think we've always got tomorrow, but that's not always guaranteed. I think back to when I was at school and we were talking about sex education - we didn't talk about fertility. It's all about…a little bit about mechanics or it’s about how not to get pregnant, and then a little bit about periods. But there's nothing around empowering women about taking control of their fertility.
So I think if I had that choice again, I would just get it checked or get my eggs frozen because I'm a very healthy person. I put a lot of effort into my fitness and well-being. But just because I'm healthy on the outside, that has no reflection on what your fertility is. And when you leave it so long, then that's kind of taken away from you. You don't have to put it in the hands of your partner. It just gives you more choices. And I think what you and I have shared around our careers, having to make that choice. Women shouldn't have to make a choice. Just because you want to better yourself in your career does not make you a bad mum because you haven't wanted to get pregnant when you were younger. You're wanting to create a lifestyle. So I think just get it checked early.
And I just say, for any gay women out there, don't listen to the naysayers. There's always going to be people who say no, that's not how things are done. And, you know…for women working in tech…yes, there is always one way of doing things, but there's always another way of doing something, and just try and take strength in that. Stick with your values and just go for it.
Clare
I love that. And I think my only addition would be to take time off if you're going to do this. Don't try and work and do all the treatments at the same time, and be prepared for what can happen afterwards once the egg retrieval has happened. If you're not planning to get pregnant straight away on a fresh cycle, if you're going to freeze, what the consequences hormonally might be. So being able to create sufficient space for you to focus solely on your body doing this massive thing and recover from it, because I know I tried to go back to work too early, and it was…I had to say, “Sorry, I can't, I'm not ready.” But I've also seen a lot of other women who are trying to balance the appointments, going for scans, and having to nip in and out of work. I think if you can be really transparent with your organisation…
Freya
Yeah.
Clare
Obviously, I'm my own boss, so it didn't really. affect me the same way. But going back to the beginning, when you were talking about how much maternity benefits and care came as a decision point in deciding which companies you decided to work for. I say, ladies, make sure that you check out what their policies around IVF and support around that are as well.
And any companies or organisations at leadership level that are listening to this, please, please, please consider IVF as part of that maternity journey, in terms of how you set work up to enable women to, if they need to or want to be able to take the time to do treatments like this and feel supported. Because I'm a hundred per cent sure stress is a huge factor in whether or not rounds are “successful” and we need to recognise that the traditional way of getting pregnant and 2.4 kids, marriage, and children isn't something that all women prescribe to or subscribe to.
Freya
Yeah. And just to add on that, I'm incredibly lucky…the people lead, HR manager at my organisation, Leanne, she's been absolutely wonderful. She's been through the IVF journey herself. And she…I didn't have to hide about it. I could talk about it. I could talk about how I was feeling. And, you know, they supported me with the clients I was working with. That made such a difference because, like you say, you know, I only have two embryos. I've got two shots – you've only got one – and you want to be in the best place and to feel supported and know that that's one…your career is one thing that you can…you know, know it's okay. It makes a huge difference. So yeah, like you say, if there are any organisations out there who haven't got IVF on their people policies, you know, do, because it makes such a difference.
Clare
I love that. I suppose I should probably close before I say goodbye to everybody, with a kind of current status update about this embryo that's in the freezer, because I haven't carried on talking about it on social media. And that is that I'm not sure what I'm going to do or when I'm going to do it. I think part of my reticence, as I mentioned, is what's going on in the world right now. That's terrifying.
Freya
Yeah.
Clare
Part of my reticence is that I only have one shot. So at the moment, I do have a chance – a real chance that if I decided to go ahead, I could have a baby. But I don't know how I'd feel if I found out it was no longer an option if it didn't work. And yeah, guess, thirdly, I don't feel ready, but I don't think anyone ever feels ready. But I think, stability-wise, I just haven't quite got everything in place that would enable me to confidently have a baby by myself. My parents don't live anywhere near me. I'm four hours away. Financially, things aren't amazing. So yeah, I'm still kind of working towards…how do I set myself up from an environment point of view that I feel like I am in the best possible position to, if I wanted to do it? Rather than taking the risk. But as you've demonstrated today, Freya, I think a lot of it is about taking control of your own destiny, making some really big decisions, no matter what the outcome might be, recognising that innately you have the resilience within you to – no matter what happens – deal with whatever will crop up, that it will be okay, that you will be okay. And as you said, if it's your dream, whatever that dream is, it's just to relentlessly pursue it and make it happen for yourself.
So I'd just like to say thank you so much for being such an inspiring woman in CX and sharing your journey with our podcast listeners today. And yeah, just wishing you all the best for…you’ve got another six months off, is that right?
Freya
Yeah.
Clare
Yeah, the next stages of little baby Fox's growth, and yeah, I can't wait to give him a proper smoosh!
Freya
Definitely! Thank you for having me. I'm so happy that we've got to talk about this subject, and I hope that it inspires some other women, definitely.
Clare
Yeah, we really scratched the surface because there's so much to talk about. But if any of the listeners want to reach out to you for it, where's the best place to connect with you?
Freya
Yeah, reach out on LinkedIn, please do. I'm more than happy to have a chat.
Clare
Awesome, thank you so much, everybody, bye for now, see you all next time. Bye!
Freya
See you!
Clare
Thanks for listening to the Inspiring Women in CX podcast with me, Clare Muscutt. If you enjoyed the episode and you don’t already, please, please, please do drop us a like and subscribe to our channel – the bigger the following, the bigger the impact we can create on our mission to amplify the voices of women working in CX and technology! Well, that’s all for now! See you again next time.
