Clare Muscutt talks CX Metrics, Insight and the importance of Women's Networking with Chloe Woogler.
Episode #211 Show Notes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Hi, Chloe.
Chloe Woolger:
Hi, Clare. How are you?
Clare Muscutt – host:
I’m awesome. How are you doing today?
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, really well, thank you.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Super.
Chloe Woolger:
I like the Christmas tree.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Oh, thank you. Yeah, well, I think you’re going to be the episode just before Christmas.
Chloe Woolger:
Very good.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Have you got your decorations up?
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, looking very festive in this house now.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, yeah. Because I’m going to be spending Christmas by myself, I think I’ve gone a bit overboard because my lounge now resembles some kind of grotto.
Chloe Woolger:
Oh, wow!
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah. Well, I put the Christmas tree up and I was just like, ‘Oh, I could just do with some little lights over there.’ So, I went and bought some more, and then I thought, ‘Maybe that corner, as well.’ And literally now, my whole lounge is like Santa’s grotto.
Chloe Woolger:
That’s amazing. It’s going to bring you so much Christmas cheer.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, yeah. I know I quite enjoy just turning the big lights off, putting the fairy lights on, watching Christmas films. Got my own little den. It’s perfect.
Chloe Woolger:
Oh, lovely.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Well, anyway, welcome the Women in CX podcast.
Chloe Woolger:
Thank you. It’s great to be here.
Clare Muscutt – host:
And welcome to all the listeners, too. So, I’m really excited to have this conversation today because we’ve been talking about doing it forever, haven’t we?
Chloe Woolger:
Absolutely, yeah. I’ve been so inspired by following what you’ve been up to on this, as well. So, great to be here.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Ah, amazing. Today, we’re going to have a conversation about how insight and metrics can help to drive action in business and also hear a bit about your career story. Is that all good?
Chloe Woolger:
Perfect. Sounds good.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Super. So, let’s start there, then. Please can you tell us about your journey into customer experience and how you ended up becoming the Commercial Director at Kantar?
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, so, I started my career working in public sector research, actually, which was great because it gave me a really good, grounded base of how to handle large public sector-style programmes, and also generally what it’s like working with large organisations.
So, I was working at Chime at the time – Chime Communications – and they started a CX agency, which started out as one person, and then the MD quickly built it up to a successful agency. And that was really great to see a business grow from scratch and where they got to in terms of 20 people, at one point, and then that’s where I came over. They needed that sort of dedicated marketing and new business support, so that’s where I fell into my career with CX.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Amazing.
Chloe Woolger:
I’d always felt really passionately, though, that consumer feedback and really understanding what consumers were feeling about an interaction needed to be gathered in real time. So, it was always something that – as soon as I started out in research, I was really excited by CX.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Okay. So, that’s a bit of a combination, then, of the actual practical insights and application and also business development before you headed off to Kantar.
Chloe Woolger:
Absolutely, yeah. I think the CX landscape went through a huge change, didn’t it? I mean, it went through a huge change throughout probably from about 2011 to where we are now, but definitely between 2013 and 2015. It was drastic: brands all of a sudden wanted to move away from traditional methodologies like postal and CATI, and real time really became the number one priority.
So, yeah, it was a really exciting time for me.
Clare Muscutt – host:
And what are you seeing out there at the moment in terms of insight trends? Are we ever going to get away from NPS? I’m just going to ask the question outright.
Chloe Woolger:
Ooh, yeah. I mean, I think not – and I’ve got lots of view on metrics, which we can explore later – but yeah, I think there’s a definite need for there always to be more than just NPS; you can’t as a brand rely solely on NPS, and other metrics absolutely have got to come into the fold.
I’ve really seen it, actually. So, I joined Kantar in 2019, and it had really been an agency that I’d had my eye on for a long time and I’d been speaking to, mainly because I saw them at lots of conferences – and you know you and I go to a lot of conferences all the time – and I was so impressed by their client lists and thinking, ‘Wow. They’re really sort of leading the CX space in terms of the brands that they’re working for.’ So, yeah, it had been a company I’d been looking at for a long time. And then had quite an interesting interview process, actually, sort of a few glasses of wine with the MD, and then a couple of more formal interviews, and I was offered the role. So, haven’t looked back since.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Ah, amazing. Tell us more about these glasses of wine, then. So, you met…
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, exactly.
Clare Muscutt – host:
You met kind of informally first, and then that led…
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, so, we knew each other from that conference circuit, as we said, and we’d sort of known each other for a couple of years. Then, we had that conversation, and it was that point when I really knew, you know, when I heard their full client list and things like that, that I was really excited.
And look, I’ve been given some incredible opportunities within Kantar to help raise my profile within the CX space but also the capabilities that Kantar has. So, it’s been great seeing how a big agency works. And definitely for me, one of the key things that stands out – I mean, there’s lots of different things – is always having something to say. I mean, we collect data about so many different interactions for our thought leadership and across the whole of Kantar that we’ve always got a wealth of data to take to our clients, which is really impressive.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Okay, so, I guess for anyone who’s not familiar with Kantar, could you just tell us a bit more about what you do?
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, of course. Yeah. So, Kantar are a data giant. They cover lots of different spaces, but predominantly I work within the ‘insights’ part – which has a big CX agency, which is where I’m part of – but we’ve got lots of other parts of that: so, brand tracking; we’ve got innovation; media. So, it’s a really broad spectrum of what it covers within insights.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I always remember when I worked at Sainsbury’s, the Kantar data was the thing we’d always be waiting for because that had the biggest impact on our numbers – that was like a benchmark comparison between the big four grocery retailers.
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, that’s it. Yeah. So, that’s through our retail practice, which is still going very strong. And we’ve got our world panel data, which collects millions and millions of shopper data, as well, which is really interesting. So, it’s having all that data that you can take to clients. And showing that understanding of their business and their market before even a conversation is really exciting.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Ah, okay. And would you say it’s a data and software company?
Chloe Woolger:
So, to an extent… On the CX side, we work with Qualtrics and Medallia as our two partners for software, so we don’t have our own CX platform, mainly because – we’ll definitely come onto talking about this later, I’m sure – but there’s a huge divide between yes, the software’s absolutely an enabler of helping you gather feedback, but it’s definitely not the thing that drives action.
So, we’re very much in that action-oriented space, and that’s why we’ve got these global partnerships with Qualtrics and Medallia so that we’ve got that feedback platform that we can take to our clients, that we have that data and that’s grounded in terms of driving action.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Okay, and what were those environments like to work in, these big agencies and insight companies?
Chloe Woolger:
They were really good. I mean, I’ve spent quite a lot of my time networking – as you have – on the conference circuit, and there’s definitely something more male culture-orientated that’s associated with networking, as you’ve probably seen, as well. So, that more sort of relationship-building in the commercial world, it is definitely tailored to men, I feel, whether that’s staying for beers, or going for a curry after a conference or meeting. But definitely sort of being more inclined to identify those bonding activities – which I’m really keen to do, although probably maybe more so when there’s champagne involved – but there’s definitely an element of them being more tailored towards men. And especially as a mum with two children, them maybe having that perception that I can’t do those things, which of course is in fact untrue; you definitely need a supportive network around you to be able to do them, but absolutely something that I really enjoy doing.
So, yeah, I’ve seen that perception, but I think definitely when I think about from a female perspective – and from having two small children, as I said – something that stuck with me was something I was told by one of the senior leaders when I was working at Chime, actually, was… she said, ‘You know, absolutely, you need to be doing all of these things. You need to be seen. But limit your evenings out to no more than two a week so that you can spend enough time at home with your family and things like that,’ which of course I’ve done. So, although I want to be really successful in my career, obviously you need to have a good balance between family there, as well.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah. I remember my days working in business development. Well, I’ve always worked in CX, so they kind of wheeled me out to potential clients as, ‘This girl’s gonna help explain to you why you should choose us because of our skills in customer experience and service and what we could do for you.’ This is like B2B sales in the service industry, so hospitality, reception services, that kind of thing. And there was a lot of drinking went on!
Chloe Woolger:
There really is! Yeah.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, there is. There is. So, it was like ‘client entertaining’, which always came with food and a lot of booze.
Chloe Woolger:
Food and drink.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah. I was in my earlier 20s at that point, though, but I don’t think I could handle it now.
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, I know. You do have to definitely take a little bit of a step back the older you get; I’ve definitely found that.
But, you know, on the whole, I’ve seen it as a very friendly landscape. And it was obviously quite male-dominated – especially in the tech space, as well – but I think they don’t exclude women; there’s no danger of that. I’ve probably actually had one or two cases where women have been slightly less friendly, actually.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah.
Chloe Woolger:
I suppose by that, I mean not being inclusive or helping other people to develop and grow, and it is rare but… I mean, something I’ve really stood by is making sure your career is only a success if you’ve taken other people on that journey. So, I’ve always been really committed to helping and growing other people’s talent as much as I can. I’ve had some amazing mentors over my career as well, who’ve really helped me work out things like values and what I want to achieve – both men and women – and some of the men have been really genuinely supportive and great role models that have encouraged me to achieve my goals. Definitely, my current MD is one of those now, and I actually think him having a female CEO is a huge part of that, as well, because he reports into a female, he gets it, he understands it, and he doesn’t have any of those perceived perceptions about, you know, my networking capabilities to stay out until the early hours, or things like that, when needed with clients.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah. Okay, so, you’ve got a female CEO at Kantar?
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, we have. Yeah. So, she’s worked her way up through Kantar, actually. She’s incredible and she’s been a real inspiration to me. She’s really, really good at being inclusive in terms of what she wants from the workforce, but also in helping our clients, as well. So, she leads lots of our work around women in finance and things like that, as well, lots of our thought leadership. So, yeah, it’s been great to work for a woman CEO.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, not many of us get the chance to do that, hey?
Chloe Woolger:
No, exactly. And that’s the point, you know. As I said to you, I’ve seen so many examples of people trying to help people, and we really do that, but you do get the one or two, which I think you just need to remember: goodness, your career is a journey for you and for everyone else; you need to take people on that journey with you.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah. I think that’s one of the things I’m most proud about building the community for Women in CX is being able to shine a light and really easily help and support each other. But I think networking is so important, and now we can’t go to conferences…
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, absolutely.
Clare Muscutt – host:
It’s not the same online – like going to an event – you don’t get the face time. I know that people have been setting up like little Zoom rooms to have conversations, but it is not the same.
Chloe Woolger:
It’s not the same, no.
Clare Muscutt – host:
And finding ways to network outside of the traditional conferences and events – depending on what happens with the vaccine next year – long may it continue, having those deep conversations, I guess. But for me, it’s relied upon feeling brave enough to reach out and ask questions, ask someone ‘Would you mind spending 30 minutes to have a conversation with me?’ and building the relationship outside of the traditional channels. I know that since the pandemic, I know so many more people on a much more personal level because of Zoom and being able to have Zooms.
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And do you know what? I think those behaviours will stick, Clare, I really do.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah.
Chloe Woolger:
I think that…
Clare Muscutt – host:
I want them to continue.
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah. I think we’ll go back to live events – and I’m really rooting for that actually because I think there’s nothing the same as standing having a coffee or being able to sit and have lunch with someone – so, really rooting for live events to come back in that sense, but I don’t think we’ll be at the same level of client meetings as we were, you know, before the pandemic because it works, doesn’t it? You’ve seen that. It really does work.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, yeah. I think in comparison to before the pandemic, I’m far more connected with people in the CX community because of the pandemic, and because we all started to have like Zooms, and WhatsApp groups, and that kind of thing. So, yeah, I agree with you: networking is really important, especially for women.
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, absolutely. And build your network, as well – which you’ve done so well at doing – but make sure that you’ve built your network, and don’t just rely on people in the same field, as well. I’ve definitely seen that where I came originally from a large group that had an advertising agency, having that background is really interesting, and you get some really good connections across lots of different fields, which is really important.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, good advice. Cool.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Okay. So, I’m just going to jump into the questions around metrics, then, as we keep alluding to them.
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, of course.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I’m sure the listeners are aching to know what we’re going to talk about today. So, there is a lot of debate in our industry about CX metrics. I have made no secret of the fact that I think it’s become a problem how we’ve obsessed – so, not me personally – but businesses have obsessed with the metrics and the measurement side and have not focused on the action.
So, I’m interested to know – of course, I’m not saying metrics are useless; I think they absolutely are a part of the story – what do you think the most useful metrics are for customer experience, and why?
Chloe Woolger:
So, I mean, as you alluded to there, there are so many CX metrics, and the strengths and weaknesses do really vary depending on the brand using them, as well.
So, a key thing to really think about as an organisation is to really make sure you’ve got a clearly defined metric structure; we say that’s the basis of any good CX programme. So, what I mean by that is where you’re looking at metrics – for example to track performance within CX programmes – they sit across three different levels, so they’ll break down as key customer metrics, as you know, providing that overarching basis for really understanding how customers perceive their interactions with and that brand. And then, more importantly, the impact of their behaviours, as well, so be that based on single interactions or across the whole relationship. And the metrics that really are most commonly used there are NPS, as we know, CSAT, and CES; all metrics we’re all really familiar with.
But where brands really think that they should be is having that key customer metric and that being the one that they focus everything on, and actually there’s two layers down from that. So, there’s really importantly the top-line metrics; these are the ones that help you understand key outcomes, for example, of interaction or even relationship, as well, which is really important, and then whether customers got what they wanted from that brand. And when you think about that, it’s really interesting to think, ‘Is that both rationally and emotionally?’ And that’s a really key area.
So, the examples of those sort of metrics that we commonly recommend – and I said, we recommend our clients have one, and then two probably top-line metrics as part of that, as well – and that’ll be things like emotional outcome, preference, purchase retention, so they’re the sort of, as I would say, those top-line metrics.
But then, quite often, people forget about the third layer, which is those operational metrics, as well; the most granular level of detail. Those operational metrics really provide insight into both the drivers of customer experience as well as the indicators of its impact on customers. And that impact point – and to your point earlier on – is so important. So, these could be anything from financial metrics, closed-loop metrics, general operational metrics that you have within the business.
Yeah, so, I think what probably I’m trying to allude to is the fact that to ensure it’s done in a structured way, a metric framework is absolutely necessary to help you get that consistency, but really make sure you’ve got a good idea. So, no more than two to four metrics, and really try and stick to that typical one headline primary customer metric, but don’t have it as its own.
Clare Muscutt – host:
So, let’s dive a little bit further into those for anyone who’s not familiar with the terms we’re using. So, NPS – net promoter score – what is that all about?
Chloe Woolger:
Net promoter score has been around for an awfully long time, obviously ‘likelihood to recommend’, which I think is a good metric to use. And there’s so many businesses and sectors that use it and it works really well, but I think where NPS sort of exploded is people thought it would work across everything, and it just really doesn’t. There are organisations that it doesn’t work across and that sort of question doesn’t work. So, it’s obviously the most widely used – as we’ve said earlier – and it really does, I think, serve a good purpose. But for me, it just can’t be that standalone metric.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I think I read some research about the intention to do something differently doesn’t actually necessarily translate to them doing anything differently. So, a recommendation – as an example – is an intention to do it, but can you actually track and measure whether or not it occurred as a result? Is there a way of crossing those data streams, not to rely entirely on NPS, but to actually actively track what behaviour does change as a result of pulling levers in the customer experience, for example?
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think definitely making sure you’ve got a good suite of analytical tools internally, and that you’re using analytics to really understand that and drill down, is really important. As I said, you just can’t rely on it as an overall score that drives everything, and I’ve seen organisations – typically, for example, utilities companies – it’s the one question they ask. They might ask an open-ended question after that, but they’re basing everything on that. And even down to frontline teams being incentivised on that, which we see less of these days, but it’s still quite prominent in terms of people being incentivised on that score.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Then, let’s move to CES – customer effort score, for anyone who’s not familiar – what are the advantages of using that as part of your suite of metrics?
Chloe Woolger:
I think it’s – well, because it really asks customers the rating of using products and services on a ‘very difficult’ to ‘very easy’ scale, I think that’s where there is a huge focus of actually being able to show that you’ve got that opportunity for customers to really understand the question in a bit more detail, as well. So, it really does ask questions, doesn’t it, of what they think of that product and service overall? And ‘very difficult’ or ‘very easy’ is so easy to understand, whereas when you think back to NPS and likelihood to recommend, ‘Okay, well, not sure. Would I recommend it?’ You know, it’s not the same question, so it is very different. Widely, customer effort score is something that we use with quite a lot of our clients on their programmes, and it really does serve a good purpose.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I know they’re very keen on that one in contact centres, aren’t they?
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s sort of rightfully so; it’s definitely been a good metric for the contact centres.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Then, customer satisfaction – CSAT, as it’s known – I suppose that’s quite obvious, isn’t it? ‘How satisfied were you with this touch point, moment of interaction, product service element?’ But you mentioned a word that some of our listeners might not be so familiar with that comes with satisfaction, which is the ‘key drivers’ and understanding that.
Chloe Woolger:
Yes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
How do you understand based on customer satisfaction how important things are and the influence that they have over actual shopper – sorry, not just shopper – customer behaviour?
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, no, no, really good question. I think that obviously, again, it relates back to really understanding what the relationship is between drivers and then customer behaviour, as well, so really drilling down into that a bit more detail. And again, it just… it doesn’t work as a standalone metric; that’s the point of all of these. I don’t think they were ever designed to be standalone metrics. So, connect data together. We’ve got an awful lot of thought leadership on how you should be bringing different data together – whether that’s operational data, whether that’s financial data – when you do that, you’ve really got the opportunity to create that single-source customer view that’s really important.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I’m just thinking back to my days in business, running customer experience programmes. I think metrics were always – from the insights perspective – it was something that I’d use as an input to shaping the CX design process. So, what data and information did we have that could tell us perhaps where there was an issue? Or looking at kind of complaints in key areas. But when it came to proving return on investment when we changed something, for me it was about being able to take a whole heap of metrics and put measures in place and track them as the new initiative launched, and then having benchmark comparisons to stores – this is back in my retail days – where we hadn’t done the same thing.
So, we’d look for basically a mirror-image business that we could compare, ‘If we did this customer experience initiative compared to that other one, what’s the difference?’ So, we tracked all the metrics, and you could see a difference between the same kind of performance traditionally, the same kind of operational performance traditionally, you could see there was a marked improvement. And then, being able to relate that to the increase in sales and the decrease in costs of a store operation made it therefore really – I say easy; it wasn’t easy – really clear what the benefit and value was.
But I know a lot of people – especially when I see them talking on LinkedIn and having these conversations – are really struggling because it seems like you have to prove the ROI of customer experience…
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah. Yeah.
Clare Muscutt – host:
… as a thing. Where does that come from?
Chloe Woolger:
Well, do you know what? I mean, proving ROI is so essential. It’s something that businesses do nowhere near enough. And it’s something that I think is key to securing CX budget, as well; if you don’t prove the ROI of a CX programme, then how are you going to get that budget and grow that budget, which you need to get closer to the customer?
So, I think when you think what the role of customer experience is in organisations, obviously it should be the lifeline of the business, shouldn’t it? It should be the thing that helps businesses fail or succeed. But in order to really prove that ROI, then I think you need to think about analysing which experience factors really drive that biggest change – by that, I’m thinking, you know, in customer sentiment, for example – more importantly which drives biggest change in key business outcomes, causes customers to spend less, or more, or leave, or stay. That type of analysis is probably the thing that can really drill down and prove ROI because it can look at things like operational performance, which drives customer sentiment, and then which metrics are used most, as well, and which are most important.
So, yeah, I think proving that ROI is difficult, but if you use the right tools, you can put a financial value to it, and it is that simple. Really showing by – and we’ve done some work with an airline recently, where we showed them just a small increase in NPS score gave them a financial value in terms of how they manage to grow as a business. And that’s really surprising. You take that to board, you take that to your chief financial officer, and they’re going to wake up and they going to say, ‘Right, wow. If we could cascade that across the business, and get all of the employees bought into that and they can see just by their actions, their small actions, what can happen in terms of financial success of the business.’ It’s really powerful.
Clare Muscutt – host:
So, how did you then track that? So, watching net promoter increase as they deployed initiatives, and then tracking sales data or retention data?
Chloe Woolger:
Exactly. Yeah, and it was all done through existing data, as well, so it was using analytics all through existing data, which is great because then it’s not something they had to do; it was just through a level of analytics. It gave them that better understanding of how experience and expectation changes have impacted the customer, really.
So, yeah, it was really exciting, and I think – we’re getting asked about that a lot more now. Organisations just want to show it in a truly simple value, and that is just by putting a pound sign to it.
Clare Muscutt – host:
It’s fascinating, though, because I guess when I was demonstrating the cost of bad experience, you could look at complaints, cost to serve those complaints, you could look at refunds, and other data points that did necessarily cross into the realms of any of those that we’ve mentioned, like CSAT, or NPS, or customer effort scores.
Do you think perhaps that focusing on trying to prove the return on investment for a programme, as in like a measurement programme, might be part of the problem, as opposed to return on investment of actioning initiatives?
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah. Look, I mean, I think especially we’ve seen this year, budgets are obviously squeezed in every area of businesses. And quite often, we’ve seen that CX falls into marketing budgets now, which have obviously been hugely squeezed this year. So, yeah, I think there is an element of people saying, ‘What’s the actual value of our transactional programme?’ for example, but when you put that value against it, and you show them that that small change can increase things, then I think it still proves its worth within organisations.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, that’s fair enough.
So, what would you say is the best way to engage and influence the C-suite is when it comes to data, insight, and metrics?
Chloe Woolger:
Oh, that’s a great question. So, I mean, I do think it’s showing that ROI and really showing them what the value CX can bring.
I also think there’s a huge area of making sure they understand, as well: as customer experience professionals, and especially within organisations, it’s our job to educate and really make sure they understand what it is because otherwise it’s something that they see, they don’t really get, they don’t really engage with.
Actually, we’ve got a nice story of… so, we worked with Nationwide – obviously, a building society, all about members, very customer-centric – and their engagement from the C-suite is incredible because it comes from the CEO.
So, we went to a conference earlier this year – the only conference we managed to get to this year – and the CEO was presenting. And the first thing he flashed up on screen was the dashboard – that dashboard showing all the customer feedback, our dashboard that we’ve created showing customer feedback – and he said, ‘I look at it as the first thing I do when I wake up. I look at it as the first thing I do when I get into the office. It’s exactly what I’m looking at all the time. I want to see what the customer feedback is doing.’
So, by the CEO driving that culture – that ‘think customer’, customer-centric culture that he’s done through the business – it’s engaged the whole of the C-suite because everyone’s thinking, ‘Well, you know, the CEO is so passionate about it, you know. It’s the first thing he does when he gets out of bed!’ Then, I think that’s a key part of it, so really making sure you get those senior stakeholders on board is really important.
Quite often, I think that when organisations say, ‘Right, we’re going to put a CX programme in place,’ that’s fantastic. Absolutely do that. But actually, just as important as getting the right software is how you engage your employees with it, and it’s got to land at the right time, it’s got to be launched correctly, it’s got to make sure it creates traction within those few months; otherwise, it just becomes another system, another process, another mechanism of feedback, and it gets lost unfortunately.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I agree with you on that. So, just to round this off, then, what would you say your top tips would be for women in CX out there who want to turn those insights that they’re already gathering into action?
Chloe Woolger:
So, if I think about first of all from an agency side, it’s about really knowing your client well and knowing their business well. So, you need to – as their insight strategic partner – you need to really make recommendations that are appropriate to them. So, the better you get to know your client, and the more you can workshop with them, and things like that, the better it is.
So, yeah, take time to get to know your client, their priorities, what’s keeping them up at night, what will help – that will help you identify other opportunities, as well, which is great – but make sure as an agency, you really know them and you’re being realistic with that, as well, so realistic in terms of driving action from insight: you can’t suggest something that won’t be possible for the business; you need to make sure you’re realistic in that.
Then, I suppose, lastly, I would say as an organisation, I’d say short term versus long term, so often think about what recommendations you can do straightaway and what other ones you need to build momentum for that are going to take longer to go from there.
Then, I suppose the only other point I’d say on that is definitely nothing works in isolation. So, as we alluded to earlier, you need to connect data; you need to make sure you know more and more about your customers – get that single-source customer view at a real individual level – which really then does help you to sort of commercialise customer experience.
Clare Muscutt – host:
And when you say ‘single customer view’, what do you actually mean by that? Because I know a lot of people have different definitions.
Chloe Woolger:
For us, it’s really about thinking, ‘Well, what does that customer want, but what do we know from all different areas of the business?’ So, connecting brand data, connecting, as I said, financial data, employee data – because obviously they’re the biggest source of knowledge on your customers, so use the feedback from your employee programme, as well – but really create that one-source understanding so that you know from a personalised level what that customer expects and what they want. And obviously, you can segment those and all those things, but try and create that one single-source view instead of having all these multiple programmes running and no idea of what connects everything together and what it actually means for the customer.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Do you think happens through CRM?
Chloe Woolger:
Yeah, so, I think potentially some of that will come through CRM; some of it will come through analytics, as I said earlier on; some of it comes of just making sure your agencies are joined up, as well, so making sure your agencies are working together.
Really interestingly, this week I presented to one of our clients and I presented with another agency, and although we used to do that an awful lot, I don’t think clients ask for that or expect that quite as much as they should. So, get your agencies working together better, and make sure that they really are running those programmes together, and that you’re using findings and insights from both.
Clare Muscutt – host:
My final thought on that was I always remember the holy grail for retail was the single customer view, but to retail it meant being able to move from having one targeted marketing communication conversation with the masses to the next step, which would be segmenting those masses and having conversations with them depending on what they bought and their preferences that these data sets and systems would be collecting over time.
But what we were aiming for was this one-to-one conversation, so who you are, what you buy, your behaviour would be understood at a data and analytics level, so you could be targeted with relevance in terms of promotion, in terms of personalised websites, for example.
How far do you think we are off that?
Chloe Woolger:
Ooh, I think we’re a little way to be honest. I think there’s still more to be done – and look, things like the rise in AI and things like that – we will get there. And obviously, this year, we’ve seen a huge surge to digital, haven’t we, faster than anyone would have expected in the next five years probably? So, look, I don’t think we’re miles off, but we still have a way to go. And I think a lot of that is really about thinking about your data strategy and thinking, ‘I’m going to maximise what data I’ve got, what data my partners have got, and then I’ve got more ability to create that single-source customer view.’
Clare Muscutt – host:
Super-duper! Alright, then, well thanks ever so much. It was fun to have a challenging debate about our differing viewpoints on insight and metrics. It’s been really helpful, I’m sure, for the audience to learn a little bit more about what some of those terms mean, and the differences in how you can apply them in order to drive action.
So, I’d just like to say thank you ever so much for joining us on the show today, and I hope you have a very merry Christmas.
Chloe Woolger:
Thanks, Clare. You too!
Clare Muscutt – host:
Take care. Bye everyone!
Chloe Woolger:
Take care. Bye!